tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post3261911923601990174..comments2023-09-28T08:13:11.489-07:00Comments on Only In It For The Gold: Several Inconvenient Truths: Ethics of CO2Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-49373069796185121942009-01-06T21:26:00.000-08:002009-01-06T21:26:00.000-08:00Oops, sorry I didn't reply here sooner.OCC, the co...Oops, sorry I didn't reply here sooner.<BR/><BR/>OCC, the conversation was very cordial. <BR/><BR/>Hank, yes, the very high carbon events were in the distant past on geological timescales. The carbon is bound into the crust in various forms.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-54106574448168776402008-11-12T01:04:00.000-08:002008-11-12T01:04:00.000-08:00How can coal be the limiting factor? Or is this ig...How can coal be the limiting factor? Or is this ignoring carbon feedback, e.g. methane? But the CO2 level has been much higher; is that all supposed to be in rock rather than in coal, these days?Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-45754571320598042032008-11-06T06:14:00.000-08:002008-11-06T06:14:00.000-08:00Very nice speech, thanks for posting. What was the...Very nice speech, thanks for posting. What was the general tone of the discussion afterwards? <BR/><BR/>The parable leads me (and I suspect most) to the conclusion that the cumulative draw of resources should be equalized. In the real world, that may be too much to ask though, at least in the short run. It seems inevitable in the long run though, as an ethical decision that everybody could in principle agree upon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-77601894937162784782008-11-04T16:44:00.000-08:002008-11-04T16:44:00.000-08:00Michael Tobis --- I still think the original quest...Michael Tobis --- I still think the original questions you posed are important. First, we cannot be sure that the claimed limit of 460 ppm is actually correct. Second, even if correct, I doubt we understand enough about, say, methane emissions from drying peatbogs and marshes to be certain than a 'tipping point' will not been reached at that level.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-63532536337620192582008-11-04T10:52:00.000-08:002008-11-04T10:52:00.000-08:00A couple of interesting q's here, now, and just ex...A couple of interesting q's here, now, and just exactly the sort we all need to see more of.<BR/><BR/>Dano, how does small scale positively affect availability of phosphorus?<BR/><BR/>I seem to recall an Isaac Asimov essay from ages ago where he argued that phosphorus was the limiting element in total terrestrial biomass, but I think he was talking about an extreme case.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-68829449208800642012008-11-04T10:38:00.000-08:002008-11-04T10:38:00.000-08:00NPK application has allowed our industrial-scale a...NPK application has allowed our industrial-scale agriculture (with applied irrigation). When we run out of, say, mineable Pi, we will be forced to return to organic fert - manures etc. <BR/><BR/>This will necessarily shrink the scale of our agriculture. Us folk who like local food understand that localizing ag means more folk growing food in their yards, and on vacant lots. I intend to semiretire in ~10 years and consult to folks growing gardens in McSuburbia, as our scaled ag will begin to change by then. <BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>DDanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03709762632849004871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-57150063469288071462008-11-03T17:35:00.000-08:002008-11-03T17:35:00.000-08:00ClimateEthics.org<A HREF="http://climateethics.org/" REL="nofollow"> ClimateEthics.org</A>David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-44005887725495534482008-11-03T13:34:00.000-08:002008-11-03T13:34:00.000-08:00We'll run out of minable phosphate.We'll run out of minable phosphate.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-60113012350778265832008-11-03T13:22:00.000-08:002008-11-03T13:22:00.000-08:00Thanks David. Very disturbing stuff, on more than ...Thanks David. Very disturbing stuff, on more than one count. Perhaps I am worrying about the wrong thing.<BR/><BR/>However, the picture painted there is actually a bit prettier than the one we greenhouse worriers have. If there is so little coal avialable then the shift to carbon neutral is, at least, only a matter of positive will and need not be accompanied by restraint.<BR/><BR/>The solutions are remarkably similar: carbon-neutral energy is the name of the game. The main difference this makes in terms of mitigation strategy is that if it's correct, it takes CCS off the table as a first order component of policy. We still need collective action to develop new incentives and new infrastructure on a huge scale.<BR/><BR/>If this is right, if peak coal is imminent, it certainly calls a big piece of the IPCC process and climatological conventional wisdom into question. This is very different from any assessment I have seen, unlike the oil peak which is consistent with the carbon inventories I've seen.<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to change my mind entirely on this evidence but it has a plausible enough flavor that you have me doubting exactly how we will fail if we do.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-48325493795248717852008-11-03T11:55:00.000-08:002008-11-03T11:55:00.000-08:00David Rutledge (CalTech EE professor) has studied ...David Rutledge (CalTech EE professor) has studied the matter and states that peak coal will occur around 2025--2030. His thread is on TheOilDrum.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/10/28/ccqa6-presentations-available/" REL="nofollow"> Dr. Michael Lardelli has good slides</A><BR/><BR/>Click on his name. Be sure to read to the very last (scary) slide.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.com