tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post6258213635164895562..comments2023-09-28T08:13:11.489-07:00Comments on Only In It For The Gold: The Role of Scientists and of Scientific AuthorityMichael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-82807660933028346002010-09-06T14:40:38.845-07:002010-09-06T14:40:38.845-07:00Talk to the grad students, especially those from y...Talk to the grad students, especially those from your country and other western countries.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-73506088243075420202010-09-06T14:16:13.408-07:002010-09-06T14:16:13.408-07:00Thanks, Deech56, for your kind words (and Michael ...Thanks, Deech56, for your kind words (and Michael for same in the WUWT thread itself)! <br /><br />Not sure if I will be able to keep it up now that my life has gotten much busier here, but I'll try.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06510687524626136184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-73827155069194523482010-09-06T13:41:08.032-07:002010-09-06T13:41:08.032-07:00"The ivory tower is increasingly populated by..."The ivory tower is increasingly populated by second and third generation academics."<br /><br />I don't think a single faculty member in my department had a parent who was an academic. Are there stats on this somewhere?Zen Faulkeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811309183398223358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-1367870835946513772010-09-06T12:16:51.148-07:002010-09-06T12:16:51.148-07:00Rust never sleeps, what numbers in the article are...Rust never sleeps, what numbers in the article are incorrect?<br /><br />Happy to change them and credit you for the correction, if warranted.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12747117922597525042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-161663173241569832010-09-06T10:01:02.749-07:002010-09-06T10:01:02.749-07:00William T, I fervently hope that most Americans sh...William T, I fervently hope that most Americans share your opinion on the value of expertise. However, a growing proportion of folks appear to challenge this apparent self-evident truth. Just head over to WUWT and see what passes as "science" there, or read the illogical musings of Tom Fuller on climate science, or - more worryingly - wait for the results of the November mid-terms for proof. <br /><br /><a href="idiot+america&source=bl&ots=hh7cS6L6CG&sig=BYF_xTs5j8_9Jpt1JX1pz9aHgNo&hl=en&ei=DBuFTNHaDsT7lwf4oMUP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow">Charles Pierce</a> says it better than most:<br /><br />"The rise of Idiot America, though, is essentially <i>a war on expertise</i> (my italics)...The rise of Idiot America today reflects - for profit, mainly, but also, and more cynically, for political advantage and in the pursuit of power - the breakdown of the consensus that the pursuit of knowledge is a good. <br /><br />"It also represents the ascendancy of the notion that the people we should trust the least are the people who know best what they're talking about. <br /><br />"In the new media age, everybody is a historian, a scientist, or a preacher, or a sage. And if everyone is an expert, then nobody is, and the worst thing you can be in a society where everyone is an expert is, well, an actual expert."<br /><br />- Pierce, <i>Idiot America</i>, p. 8. <br /><br />PS: This book is <b>really</b> worth the read. It makes much more sense than anything in RPJr's oeuvre.DirkDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14830811661194948436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-6136576923882746792010-09-06T09:27:19.772-07:002010-09-06T09:27:19.772-07:00Oh boy. GRACE under fire.
Now proudly putting his...Oh boy. <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/06/grace-under-fire/" rel="nofollow">GRACE under fire.</a><br /><br />Now proudly putting his innumeracy on display to as wide an audience as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-24679988512129303632010-09-06T02:47:13.833-07:002010-09-06T02:47:13.833-07:00A very thoughtful post Dr Tobis. Scientists have ...A very thoughtful post Dr Tobis. Scientists have opinions too and should be able to contribute them as anyone else to help in the public debate.<br /><br />However, I don't think you need to be too hard on the difficulties of "speaking out". Even Mr Fuller has it right when in the linked article he says that the opinions of climate scientists should be given somewhat more weight in the debate than laypeople. I think that most people understand this and generally weight people's opinions according to their perceived expertise in the topic under discussion. Think about another situation - for instance if you're down at the pub talking about what went wrong on the gulf oil spill. If one of the people there happens to work on an oil rig you're most likely going to take his opinions more seriously than the fellow next to him who runs a web company.<br /><br />Of course if you've got two oil rig guys arguing opposite things then you're stuck, unless you like one of them better and he's got the same political views as you...<br /><br />So it comes back to credibility (or perceived credibility). Which is why there's been so much effort to destroy the perceived credibility of scientists and the IPCC. Your link to the joint statements of the scientific academies is something that carries credibility for many people - but probably not those who have been persuaded that there's a conspiracy involved.William Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285679538054366979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-32197701459309801642010-09-05T20:12:32.356-07:002010-09-05T20:12:32.356-07:00Now... Only in it for the Gold, Michael TOBIS! wil...Now... Only in it for the Gold, Michael TOBIS! will speak of philosophy of science! On the opposite corner... <br /><br />Thanks for this.<br /><br />The cretionist would probably like their kids to resemble none of their parents.Oalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14032383453035968859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-59382408101584473642010-09-05T17:17:03.340-07:002010-09-05T17:17:03.340-07:00Joel Shore deserves a medal for his perseverance i...Joel Shore deserves a medal for his perseverance in that WUWT thread.Deech56https://www.blogger.com/profile/01075060714218498521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-18928608833482532122010-09-05T15:58:08.943-07:002010-09-05T15:58:08.943-07:00In Germany the numbers are very different. Overall...In Germany the <a href="http://fowid.de/fileadmin/datenarchiv/Evolution_Kreationismus_Deutschland__2005.pdf" rel="nofollow">numbers are very different</a>. Overall, about 60% accept evolution, 25% subscribe to ID and 12.5% believe in Creationism. As expected findings are strongly correlated with faith. For undenominational people the numbers are 86%/10%/4% respectively. For Catholic and Protestants the numbers are about 52%/33%/15%. For Catholics and Protestants believes are strongly correlated with church attendence, ranging from 10%/46%/44% (Evo/ID/Creat) when attending every Sunday to 57%/27%/15% when going to church less then once a year and 69%/19%/10% when never attending church. Also younger people believe in evolution rather than ID. <br /><br />However, in recent years ID and Creationism seem to be on the rise; it is attributed to increased efforts by Creationists to bring their teachings into schools. Quite shockingly, one German university found that 8% of its freshmen wanting to become biology teachers(!) had creationist leanings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-84433990334960995542010-09-05T13:57:01.718-07:002010-09-05T13:57:01.718-07:00Michael, take a longer view. What was it in 1930 w...Michael, take a longer view. What was it in 1930 when Darrow met Bryant? What was it a century earlier?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12747117922597525042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-67499625764857105422010-09-05T13:53:07.957-07:002010-09-05T13:53:07.957-07:00Please warn us if you're going to link to WUWT...Please warn us if you're going to link to WUWT: I don't want my head to explode. Just the first comment to the article was enough.turboblockehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10127897534662239613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-28489185318830266062010-09-05T13:01:29.575-07:002010-09-05T13:01:29.575-07:00This site indicates no significant change in attit...This site indicates <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm" rel="nofollow">no significant change in attitudes</a> toward evolution since 1982.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-75869943925913177282010-09-05T12:56:02.120-07:002010-09-05T12:56:02.120-07:00"My particular version?"
You mean this ..."My particular version?"<br /><br />You mean <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalacademies.org%2Fincludes%2FG8%2B5energy-climate09.pdf&rct=j&q=royal%20society%20national%20academy%20climate%20change&ei=9vSDTIahBYGdlgedqcGjDw&usg=AFQjCNFAVLk8VScTo9BxzFW5PoMURRKORQ&cad=rja" rel="nofollow">this one</a>?<br /><br />Hey, it's not my idea.<br /><br />I wonder if acceptance of evolution in the US is not in decline in percentage terms. I was certainly taught in high school that creationism is a laughable anachronism, but then I didn't go to high school in the US. So I may be confused on this.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-42735822568828514832010-09-05T12:44:11.640-07:002010-09-05T12:44:11.640-07:00Michael, thanks for the kind words.
If you don...Michael, thanks for the kind words.<br /><br />If you don't practice what you preach regarding this, why would you expect others to listen to you?<br /><br />And you vastly overrate the pr skills of those pushing ignorance. You just don't look at the historical record to see how far general knowledge has advanced. You probably think it's a scandal that x% of the US population don't believe in evolution, or your particular version of global warming. <br /><br />But huge percentages have crossed over from superstition and ignorance--and more will, given time.<br /><br />Topsily-turvily yours...Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12747117922597525042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-76353143730236046482010-09-05T12:30:24.684-07:002010-09-05T12:30:24.684-07:00We have reached the point where superstition has b...<i>We have reached the point where superstition has better marketing than science.</i><br /><br />When has it ever not?poughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00892038673638383735noreply@blogger.com