tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post3747268567968638439..comments2023-09-28T08:13:11.489-07:00Comments on Only In It For The Gold: Thanks to Joe RommMichael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-37614449352851487082011-08-29T19:29:47.402-07:002011-08-29T19:29:47.402-07:00Also career paths for the people interested in doi...Also career paths for the people interested in doing the educating.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-64047971730980714682011-08-29T19:28:28.937-07:002011-08-29T19:28:28.937-07:00But the problem is a lack of sufficient individual...But the problem is a lack of sufficient individuals. Education and outreach are needed to recruit more.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-92078760285985079152011-08-28T21:00:15.134-07:002011-08-28T21:00:15.134-07:00Steve,
You're not that far off. Does it compu...Steve,<br /><br />You're not that far off. Does it compute? Well if I'm spending time, effort and money on two different tasks (fixing a problem or explaining why I am), and I spend less of it on one, I will have more for the other. It provides an opportunity. The impetus comes from within every individual who desires mitigation.Paul Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855759989308442259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-48235269106348775552011-08-28T19:34:27.655-07:002011-08-28T19:34:27.655-07:00Trying to sum up why most in these parts think you...Trying to sum up why most in these parts think your views are peculiar, PK, I'd say your argument boils down to saying that if trying to fix a problem while explaining why it needs to be fixed isn't working, just drop the explanation and added impetus will appear. It doesn't compute.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-48727943581866687012011-08-28T11:15:09.281-07:002011-08-28T11:15:09.281-07:00Oh my. Are you really saying there isn't a con...Oh my. Are you really saying there isn't a consensus about the meaning and intent of mitigation? There must be some very large rocks in Texas for you to have crawled under that one. But seriously, the amount of energy required in the future and the mix of sources of that energy needed to satisfy climate concerns has been described in detail by folks at MIT, Yale and Stanford among others. The focus model simply says let's concentrate on how we get there rather than why. aboutPaul Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855759989308442259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-63100671289018986812011-08-28T00:16:01.825-07:002011-08-28T00:16:01.825-07:00It is impossible to calibrate the correct mitigati...It is impossible to calibrate the correct mitigation strategy in the absence of a realistic sense of what one is mitigating.<br /><br />Of course, that doesn't matter in the magic pixie dust scenario.<br /><br />But to say "focus on actual mitigation" it seems to me requires some consensus on what it is that is being mitigated. Have I missed something?<br /><br />(not expecting a meaningful answer)Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-25165339500640867512011-08-27T21:20:12.761-07:002011-08-27T21:20:12.761-07:00MT,
I appreciate your description of my position ...MT,<br /><br />I appreciate your description of my position and that it at least rises to the level of conceivable to you. The task is daunting. 50 to 75 years hence we'll wanting to either produce with alternatives or eliminate the need for a whole bunch of terawatts. So it is important that we start right now. <br /><br />For the record. I visited the Breakthrough website once or twice several years ago. I didn't think they were on the right path. I never bothered to read Lomberg.<br /><br />Since you don't seem too attached to the deficit model, you may agree there could be another model of communication that is better for achieving mitigation. I advocate a focus communications model. In this model, the topic of discussion is actual mitigation. It helps eliminate delay.Paul Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855759989308442259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-37942393911828341422011-08-27T18:11:54.310-07:002011-08-27T18:11:54.310-07:00Michael Tobis --- Thanks, I think, but my eyes sta...<b>Michael Tobis</b> --- Thanks, I think, but my eyes started to seriously glaze over.<br /><br />I'll stick to facts, but also agree with <i>it is absolutely immoral not to.</i>David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-32217980607820251482011-08-27T17:36:35.696-07:002011-08-27T17:36:35.696-07:00It's a hobby horse of a certain school of thou...It's a hobby horse of a certain school of thought of public communication and is especially recommended to the climate community.<br /><br />As far as I know, it means waving your hands frantically and avoiding quantitative arguments for fear of coming off like some unhip nerd creature. Which is sort of <a href="http://ayjay.tumblr.com/post/9474103819/what-is-strangest-in-the-recent-waves-of-young" rel="nofollow">ancient history</a> at best. But I agree with Joe that is is profoundly disrespectful.<br /><br />Paul Kelly, I think, thinks we can solve the carbon problem by selling ultra-cool ultra-cheap non-carbon-driven things and hoping the carbon-driven things quietly shrivel up and go away. This is not inconceivable, but somebody had better come up with the alternatives first. It amounts to the Breakthrough Institute/Lomborg position.<br /><br />There is some silly argumentation that seems to claim that one should not bother with facts that are unpalatable in promoting a policy that one believes is necessary.<br /><br />The origin of the phrase appears to be Sturgis and Allum <a href="http://pus.sagepub.com/content/13/1/55.short?rss=1&ssource=mfc" rel="nofollow">here</a> and the actual proposition at hand is that attitude is important in setting opinion and that argument alone is an insufficient predictor, something that no climate scientist would disagree with.<br /><br />Sturgis and Allum: <em>The “deficit model” of public attitudes towards science has led to controversy over the role of scientific knowledge in explaining lay people’s attitudes towards science. In this paper we challenge the de facto orthodoxy that has connected the deficit model and contextualist perspectives with quantitative and qualitative research methods respectively. We simultaneously test hypotheses from both theoretical approaches using quantitative methodology. The results point to the clear importance of knowledge as a determinant of attitudes toward science. However, in contrast to the rather simplistic deficit model that has traditionally characterized discussions of this relationship, this analysis highlights the complex and interacting nature of the knowledge— attitude interface.</em><br /><br />Some people go from "rational arguments from facts are not the sole determinator of opinion" to "you might as well not bother with unpleasant facts". How they manage to do that is something you'd best ask a proponent of that position.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-44641163181133392902011-08-27T17:19:10.148-07:002011-08-27T17:19:10.148-07:00?? First time I've heard of the deficit model,...?? First time I've heard of the <i>deficit model</i>, whatever that is...David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-34139992912060014172011-08-27T16:48:46.964-07:002011-08-27T16:48:46.964-07:00Oh come on. That makes absolutely no sense at all....Oh come on. That makes absolutely no sense at all.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-9383659988112042212011-08-27T16:43:20.503-07:002011-08-27T16:43:20.503-07:00The criticism of the deficit model is not about ho...The criticism of the deficit model is not about how one defines it, but that it is irrelevant - or better put, unsuited - to the task at hand. This criticism is supported by social science research. Accept the science.Paul Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855759989308442259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-27154105542853624622011-08-27T15:37:58.152-07:002011-08-27T15:37:58.152-07:00Mark me down as on the C.Mark me down as on the <b>C</b>.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.com