tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post3766687548989485234..comments2023-09-28T08:13:11.489-07:00Comments on Only In It For The Gold: Kloor: An Appreciation and an ApologyMichael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-19706603068982732332011-04-07T09:48:23.804-07:002011-04-07T09:48:23.804-07:00Tentacles typically don't...Tentacles typically don't...Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-57925631321440574992011-04-06T17:57:46.899-07:002011-04-06T17:57:46.899-07:00Looking for extended tentacles, are we?
They don&...Looking for extended tentacles, are we?<br /><br />They don't seem to leave many definitive footprints.<br /><br />Best of luck!Tenney Naumerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843130378338023902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-83800562791753906312011-04-06T16:39:33.575-07:002011-04-06T16:39:33.575-07:00Among the funders of Climate Central is George Mas...Among the funders of Climate Central is George Mason University. I've emailed asking for a little more info.Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-80284107400225052242011-04-05T20:20:59.056-07:002011-04-05T20:20:59.056-07:00I find that in my conversations with ordinary obse...I find that in my conversations with ordinary observant people the way that weather has changed worldwide, the mounting emergencies, the dangers in plain sight, can be communicated. Look outwards some more. Time to step outside the controversy and focus on reality.susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16829151452002682271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-83509558822569215932011-04-05T20:13:22.023-07:002011-04-05T20:13:22.023-07:00It's a temporary truce, not a surrender. Keith...It's a temporary truce, not a surrender. Keith has not convinced me that the mainstream media are not largely at fault for our absurd existential dilemma. As far as I can tell he has referred to a couple of legitimate small-signal studies and think that settles the bill. It surely doesn't, and I am not sure how to make the case to someone who thinks it does.<br /><br />I wish I could explain to muggles about nonlinearity, tangent linearity, and system regimes. But that is pushing consilience pretty hard. It takes more than a few words and more than a little trust.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-31253990693010598232011-04-05T20:08:26.537-07:002011-04-05T20:08:26.537-07:00I'm puzzled. There is a through the looking g...I'm puzzled. There is a through the looking glass problem with all this "reporting". There are facts and there is reality, and then there is the either-or reporting that allows substance to be trumped by illusion. While this "conversation" continues, enabling fake skeptics to pose as real skeptics, reality will continue to develop. Lies need to be called lies. Truth needs to be heeded. Reality is in front of us, and temporizing is just exacerbating the situation.<br /><br />Susan Andersonsusanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16829151452002682271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-84898093977914363402011-04-05T17:46:29.563-07:002011-04-05T17:46:29.563-07:00Ok, back to the situation at hand.
I don't kn...Ok, back to the situation at hand.<br /><br />I don't know why you all are beating up on poor Keith in the present instance.<br /><br />The real problem is the incredibly poor judgment of the person over at Climate Central who hired him.<br /><br />So, who hired him, anyway?Tenney Naumerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843130378338023902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-77610263987288204182011-04-05T17:44:44.264-07:002011-04-05T17:44:44.264-07:00Anna, they should turn it over to you and me!Anna, they should turn it over to you and me!Tenney Naumerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843130378338023902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-69627938991882187362011-04-04T13:16:39.219-07:002011-04-04T13:16:39.219-07:00Catch-22: if you email about a private manner, it&...Catch-22: if you email about a private manner, it's called "using back-channels" and frowned upon; if you post, it's an invasion of privacy. MT, could you use your judgment here please, & delete my (April 4, 2011 12:51 PM) comment if it seems inappropriate?Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-8118684155750688532011-04-04T12:51:19.957-07:002011-04-04T12:51:19.957-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-7436418976911340022011-04-04T12:23:31.922-07:002011-04-04T12:23:31.922-07:00"We basically have three choices: mitigation,..."We basically have three choices: mitigation, adaptation and suffering. We’re going to do some of each. The question is what the mix is going to be. The more mitigation we do, the less adaptation will be required and the less suffering there will be."<br /><br />That statement leaves out the other major choice (that many may not want): growth, that can reduce suffering by billions of people in the near and long term, and make adaptation and later mitigation much easier.Steve Reynoldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16256167637226194489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-59622876524844877162011-04-04T11:05:32.543-07:002011-04-04T11:05:32.543-07:00> "Can't we just turn the internet ove...> "Can't we just turn the internet over to the women..."<br /><br />um, Judith Curry and me? That might not be an improvement.<br /><br />FYI/for the record, in the Kloor comment thread, Dr. Curry had stopped in to explain that/why she no longer intended to answer my questions regarding her & partner/spouse's potential conflicts of interest; I've responded there (& notified her of it by email):<br />===========<br />Apologies to Dr. Curry at #10 above <a href="http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2011/04/03/the-climate-back-channels/comment-page-2/#comment-56022" rel="nofollow">(link)</a>, who was displeased that I'd<br />changed her SW page (the day before her comment above) to note that my questions regarding her potential conflicts of interest had not yet been answered; [I did so since] I'd assumed that, as she was posting on her blog and responding in the comments section there, ... she (or her business partner/spouse, who I'd also asked, in emails more than a week ago) might have time to give at least a quick answer.<br /><br />(Maybe I'm reading things into the situation, but it did feel to me<br />like a brush-off, of indeterminate length. But in retrospect perhaps<br />I should have handled it differently.)<br />============ <br />(she'd indicated she didn't have the time, when I'd emailed back on 3/23; and I also got a "not now" deferral from her spouse)Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-53125215152475102152011-04-03T18:10:40.099-07:002011-04-03T18:10:40.099-07:00You really need to meet Ms. Rabett. Compared to h...You really need to meet Ms. Rabett. Compared to her Eli is, shall we say, very forgiving.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-46256691074331932392011-04-03T17:59:34.785-07:002011-04-03T17:59:34.785-07:00Criminy. Can't we just turn the internet over ...Criminy. Can't we just turn the internet over to the women for a few years?Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-16728799085894543682011-04-03T17:38:21.453-07:002011-04-03T17:38:21.453-07:00Eli must admit that he finds this all very confusi...Eli must admit that he finds this all very confusing. It is clear that Mr. Kloor is no friend of MT. Indeed, as Arthur pointed out, he is a straightforward enemy, wasting no opportunity to distort and twist anything that Michael writes.<br /><br />Now Michael must realize that at some point unless he stands up for himself, others will cease to do so. Still, you kind of see why being nice is self limiting.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-11022221761014106402011-04-03T15:18:50.551-07:002011-04-03T15:18:50.551-07:00MT, I probably ought to apologize for disrupting y...MT, I probably ought to apologize for disrupting your apology (as well as helping create the need for it) here! Thanks for your kind comments on our thinking - I mostly agree, though we do have some differences besides over Keith. Like brothers - between ourselves, we can fight :) For example I'm much more optimistic about the long run prospects for humanity than I get the feeling you are - and I think we discussed the question of continued economic growth on your blog here a while ago.<br /><br />My philosophy on this is summed up best by John Holdren's words:<br /><br />"We basically have three choices: mitigation, adaptation and suffering. We’re going to do some of each. The question is what the mix is going to be. The more mitigation we do, the less adaptation will be required and the less suffering there will be."<br /><br />and I have made the moral choice to do all I can to reduce that suffering, and to avoid the smaller risk of much greater suffering that it entails.<br /><br />I applaud other people acting in that direction, including Joe Romm who I also feel considerable kinship with. I frequent a number of "skeptic" or "lukewarm" blogs, at least as a reader, and read an awful lot of "skeptic" comments here and there, just to see if anybody has anything that actually can allay Holdren's central conclusion. Sometimes there are interesting ideas that might suggest things aren't as bad as it seems. So far none of them have panned out, but I'll keep looking.<br /><br />That's what I find interesting in climate blogs - indicators concerning the degree to which we need to worry, and actions to move things in the right direction. I think other stuff is a waste of time - but hey, it's a free country :)Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249922708053689717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-79934154979246721402011-04-03T12:55:19.075-07:002011-04-03T12:55:19.075-07:00I am operating on a self-imposed constraint on thi...I am operating on a self-imposed constraint on this thread. It's not as if I don't see problems with what Keith does. I just don't want to discuss them this minute.Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-69619952429809911512011-04-03T12:39:16.842-07:002011-04-03T12:39:16.842-07:00Michael, FWIW I agree entirely with Arthur's v...Michael, FWIW I agree entirely with Arthur's view. Expecting the same from you is obviously not realistic, but I would point out that actively enabling people like Kloor (what you do when you spend time at his blog(s) and devote posts to him) who at a root level don't get the problem *and aren't going to* (is that not clear by now?) is counter-productive since all he will do is use the gain in exposure and credibility to promote the views of the Breakthrough Boyz et al.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-78936596977339148542011-04-03T12:00:04.417-07:002011-04-03T12:00:04.417-07:00Never encourage a drama queenNever encourage a drama queenEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-6391583336998359082011-04-03T11:29:23.136-07:002011-04-03T11:29:23.136-07:00Michael, my apologies if my comment sounded a fals...Michael, my apologies if my comment sounded a false note. I found the dark intimations about "back channel" on Keith's post - picked up by Dr. Curry's comment, which I referenced - to be kind of silly, and I was just having some fun with it. <br /><br />I appreciate the invitation, and I'd certainly take you up on it if I felt I had more of substance to contribute. Again, I was making a (very) little joke, and sorry for taking away from the general drift of this thread.Paul Daniel Ashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17633446166342778475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-30470160271356425022011-04-03T11:25:15.102-07:002011-04-03T11:25:15.102-07:00Arthur,
I'm not sure what I'm "overr...Arthur,<br /><br />I'm not sure what I'm "overreacting" to. You mean your comment on this thread, Michael's post, Anna's SourceWatch page...?<br /><br />It must puzzle you to no end that lots of people from all over the ideological spectrum come by my site to engage in discussion. You want to be stubborn and stay in your safe little space, by all means continue with the pretend pose that you can't find anything interesting at Collide-a-scape. You do realize you're not fooling anyone, except perhaps yourself.<br /><br />Now how about answering my assertion that your righteous indignation at my so-called offenses are hypocritical, in comparison to what's regularly displayed at climate king's site.<br /><br />Just be straight, Arthur. I'd have a lot more respect for your criticism of me if you could just call it like it is. <br /><br />You want to engage, I'm here to engage.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05818642659325983463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-66132876081016483412011-04-03T10:31:07.328-07:002011-04-03T10:31:07.328-07:00Keith, I posted here to better understand Michael&...Keith, I posted here to better understand Michael's reasoning. I was hoping for at least one good example of something interesting you had done. Your latest, filled with more misinterpretation, conspiracy-thinking, and absurd over-estimation of your own importance, definitely doesn't qualify. <br /><br />The "back channel" Michael referred to here consisted of precisely 2 messages, the second of which was from me, and in it's entirety was: <br /><br />"Kloor the speed-reader :)<br /><br />http://arthur.shumwaysmith.com/life/content/kloors_five_strikes<br /><br /> Arthur"<br /><br />Your over-reaction to this speaks volumes to me, but I'm sure Michael will try to find a kind interpretation.<br /><br />Feel free to post again on my blog if you think I didn't respond last time. Others in the comments said as much or more than I would have.Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249922708053689717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-83433322445320895382011-04-03T09:59:43.371-07:002011-04-03T09:59:43.371-07:00Correction, s/last year/in 2009/Correction, s/last year/in 2009/Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-39859262279990844712011-04-03T09:58:35.727-07:002011-04-03T09:58:35.727-07:00BTW re SourceWatch activity, in poking around Guid...BTW re SourceWatch activity, in poking around Guidestar I've stumbled on some intriguing stuff re the Idsos' <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_the_Study_of_Carbon_Dioxide_and_Global_Change" rel="nofollow">Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change</a> and Bob Ferguson's <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Science_and_Public_Policy_Institute" rel="nofollow">Science and Public Policy Institute</a>; e.g. Idsos paid Ferguson almost 250k last year, and, according to one of the attorneys listed on VA docs (but not on SPPI site) as director of SPPI, it's just a shell corporation with no income or expenses.<br />And there's more, re the Idsos' Center...Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-1870862909417058412011-04-03T09:51:15.146-07:002011-04-03T09:51:15.146-07:00I've responded over at Kloor's; in short, ...I've responded over at Kloor's; in short, in sleeping on it, I too had formed the opinion that he doesn't qualify for a SourceWatch page, so I'd logged on this morning to take it down. Then found all this...<br /><br />(if he'd responded to my email, I probably would have come to the realization sooner)Anna Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176850465809297298noreply@blogger.com