tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-85240703011012404722024-02-22T08:09:30.421-08:00Only In It For The GoldMichael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comBlogger1615125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-53962256682029915612022-10-06T08:25:00.002-07:002022-10-06T08:25:19.768-07:00On Having an Inkling About How Much You Don't Know<p>There's this:<br /><br /></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhL4g34pyWdiBrznpVK8-cN207J2cKKnWginzeeboN3j4okNbxZkNaVl4dfAirnY3I8DlnHh58cwuuoYPh67hSmlr2mK5c-6acEQioF64Ioc7y2N6lQOhiyr4ipNUVAlLGBidBrbVxvwkSR8qEwewTWbFrG0XrOD2Tp21W3F4pBO7TbhMKVTFv-Bn6s1w/s1162/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2011.22.04%20AM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1162" data-original-width="878" height="567" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhL4g34pyWdiBrznpVK8-cN207J2cKKnWginzeeboN3j4okNbxZkNaVl4dfAirnY3I8DlnHh58cwuuoYPh67hSmlr2mK5c-6acEQioF64Ioc7y2N6lQOhiyr4ipNUVAlLGBidBrbVxvwkSR8qEwewTWbFrG0XrOD2Tp21W3F4pBO7TbhMKVTFv-Bn6s1w/w429-h567/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2011.22.04%20AM.png" width="429" /></a></div>and then there's that:<br /><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcR4pCxWukoJwzp4kqfFxeJ_OPsJHWUnRJ7WSkVjwuvOqRDrffP6Nrco9BSPhZp_1omxMllmNicts2QHUqW_eIsBvNRKZU2-P9pbSh70We5VGT7ylKMAHbB6HOFWzGugj93cSJWGX21UWN-LidtdytFLmI-eBqa2f6-caizIVluc5NFrpzHox38Mhp2w/s940/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2011.20.05%20AM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="396" data-original-width="940" height="135" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcR4pCxWukoJwzp4kqfFxeJ_OPsJHWUnRJ7WSkVjwuvOqRDrffP6Nrco9BSPhZp_1omxMllmNicts2QHUqW_eIsBvNRKZU2-P9pbSh70We5VGT7ylKMAHbB6HOFWzGugj93cSJWGX21UWN-LidtdytFLmI-eBqa2f6-caizIVluc5NFrpzHox38Mhp2w/s320/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2011.20.05%20AM.png" width="320" /></a></div><br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-81353162083830379552022-10-06T07:52:00.002-07:002022-10-06T07:59:50.651-07:00How Long Do We Have to Reduce Emissions to Avoid Catastrophe? <p>Quora question:<br><br><a class="q-box qu-display--block qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 dxHfBI" href="https://www.quora.com/How-long-do-we-have-to-reduce-emissions-to-prevent-catastrophic-temperature-rise" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6); border-radius: inherit; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-size: calc(21px * var(--dynamic-font-scale, 1)); font-weight: bold; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_top"></a></p><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 iyYUZT" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6); box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit;" tabindex="0"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; flex-direction: row;"><div class="q-inline qu-flexWrap--wrap" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; flex-wrap: wrap; max-width: 100%;"><div class="q-text puppeteer_test_question_title" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline;"><span class="q-box qu-userSelect--text"><span><i style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; box-sizing: border-box; color: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; user-select: text;"><b><a href="https://www.quora.com/How-long-do-we-have-to-reduce-emissions-to-prevent-catastrophic-temperature-rise">How long do we have to reduce emissions to prevent catastrophic temperature rise?</a><br></b></i></span></span><br><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-z-SnRDyizE8l5MMyk2BBkh3eutplCeMm3mym4WSpPnUNFEKWjXdU6Y5d8CAV8BXezVKG3gOh_voiXmmIcmTr4fl7H89p9dtCV__UEdEsHXcaDU9XuWq31T0NPxK0p_iqRKxMePGFkhTi4LTSyb9XrdznkV4XOGFR8K_SVPWMnY0DBmA_EqWUNhlZKw/s1680/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2010.55.15%20AM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="808" data-original-width="1680" height="229" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-z-SnRDyizE8l5MMyk2BBkh3eutplCeMm3mym4WSpPnUNFEKWjXdU6Y5d8CAV8BXezVKG3gOh_voiXmmIcmTr4fl7H89p9dtCV__UEdEsHXcaDU9XuWq31T0NPxK0p_iqRKxMePGFkhTi4LTSyb9XrdznkV4XOGFR8K_SVPWMnY0DBmA_EqWUNhlZKw/w475-h229/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-06%20at%2010.55.15%20AM.png" width="475"></a><br><br><br><span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; box-sizing: border-box; user-select: text;">There is both unclarity and uncertainty making it difficult to answer your question.<span></span></span></div></div></div></div><a href="https://initforthegold.blogspot.com/2022/10/how-long-do-we-have-to-reduce-emissions.html#more"></a>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-79457546718637725652022-10-05T09:02:00.005-07:002022-10-05T09:08:54.101-07:00Moving Away from TwitterOK, so it may be time to move on from Twitter.<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlvzIsX9E9M99ED4E0m2eeNI_o_kLdwe03X2_KMiigrf-l5aRcKkdZvX0lWzZ3VwbsEQUOWqXftvC5fFhFPYTeFiWlybp3BxVsooh1uNpjQVStPnakeHcDcKPNaOCANJomXzYqrdE8PNiwi83bgTU-o4FTHQOO5_p4_feoUlaYfGf8Agx0rIdr9BYW2Q/s1686/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-05%20at%2012.03.05%20PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1686" data-original-width="1206" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlvzIsX9E9M99ED4E0m2eeNI_o_kLdwe03X2_KMiigrf-l5aRcKkdZvX0lWzZ3VwbsEQUOWqXftvC5fFhFPYTeFiWlybp3BxVsooh1uNpjQVStPnakeHcDcKPNaOCANJomXzYqrdE8PNiwi83bgTU-o4FTHQOO5_p4_feoUlaYfGf8Agx0rIdr9BYW2Q/s320/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-05%20at%2012.03.05%20PM.png" width="229" /></a><br /><br />Let's talk about some risks from the post-Elon Twitter, and what we can do if there's a need for an alternative. <br /><br />One risk is that you won't be able to avoid Elon at all! He may set himself up a sort of super-account which everybody "follows" and nobody can block! Consequently his eccentric pronouncements will dominate the conversation even more than Trump's did.<br /><br />And he'll let Trump back in on day 1.<br /><br />So basically the noise level will skyrocket. This could happen as soon as next week. <br />Another risk is that his very takeover will ruin morale enough that too many people quit for the system to remain stable. Twitter may just choke on its own scale with the talent lost. This is alluded to in the Times piece:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/technology/elon-musk-twitter-predictions.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/technology/elon-musk-twitter-predictions.html</a><br /><br />As is my wont, I am rereading old futurism. I'd like to call your attention to something Arthur C Clarke said in the early 80s, somewhat in defence of the techno-libertarian free-speech absolutist view.<br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgR3rPm-HnbH98ATtA1DlNb43h1-2Hi8w3O98SLnwa39nAJYE_qXyotGa2mO2D4g88VxsuEG8vgzlikcHfN-7HT-ChUsZA_CmzlTW2aR1xtdTSmRJvo78SJBs_Nn1wG_zrngJROV8B7hMm7CIEORFytP0AINo2AJYJYaaG-OgTsLEq6TqeYEUH2PBZY3w/s1928/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-05%20at%2010.44.52%20AM.png"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgR3rPm-HnbH98ATtA1DlNb43h1-2Hi8w3O98SLnwa39nAJYE_qXyotGa2mO2D4g88VxsuEG8vgzlikcHfN-7HT-ChUsZA_CmzlTW2aR1xtdTSmRJvo78SJBs_Nn1wG_zrngJROV8B7hMm7CIEORFytP0AINo2AJYJYaaG-OgTsLEq6TqeYEUH2PBZY3w/w435-h483/Screen%20Shot%202022-10-05%20at%2010.44.52%20AM.png" /></a><br /><br />So Clarke was worried about irresponsible journalism, but he wasn't worried about pseudo-grass-roots propaganda.<br /><br />This is forgiveable, he was a visionary in so many ways and an optimist, and he didn't foresee quite how much everybody-is-a-publisher would change the picture. <br /><br />The Holocaust Museum had a traveling exhibit on Propaganda which among other things showed how effective Goebbels was in turning the public against the Jews by a concerted effort at rumour-mongering in the various small towns. Social media weaponizes this technique. <br /><br />In my view, the precipitous decline of democracy that we're seeing now is only secondarily because of the stresses of the pandemic and the struggles to cope with climate change. I think the primary factor is the resurgence of malicious propaganda supercharged by the new media. <br /><br />On the other hand, it's hard to argue against free speech. There's a huge appeal to the idea that everyone is a sort of equal on these platforms, and that we can share our evidence, our opinions, our complaints, our hopes. We need some sort of internet public sphere. <br /><br />So what can we do to decrease the visibility of malign speech and increase the visibility of benign speech; to decrease the visibility of celebrity and increase the visibility of creativity; to decrease the visibility of resentment and increase the visibility of love?<br /><br />I propose that a key problem with social media is very similar to the key problem with old school journalism. <b><i>They are set up as for-profit business.</i></b><br /><br />Unconstrained, this is inimical to the public interest.<br /><br />And we not only can do better, we already have the tech we need! <br />So I propose we go back to RSS readers and blogs; but we should also each set up some sort of headline "tweet" feed.<br /><br />(Google Reader was working fine for me. It was its collapse that sent me to Twitter.) <br /><br />The public sphere needs to move off the for-profit platforms. We can do this just by doing it. <br /><br />This won't solve the propaganda problem altogether, but it will solve a couple of problems. <br /><br />An immediate advantage is for those of us who have the skills and understanding to do it - we'll be free of whatever travesties Musk inflicts on this platform as soon as we do, at least to the extent that the folks we follow maintain a suitable RSS feed. <br /><br />In the long run we can hope and reasonably expect that tools emerge that make the RSS experience as close to that of social media as possible. The general public will then perceive the syndico-sphere as a viable alternative to social media. (And Musk's investment will evaporate!) <br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;">I recommend:</span><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;">Set up an RSS reader account</span></li><li><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;">Set up or revive your blog</span></li><li><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;">Increase participation in blog conversation</span></li><li><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;">Make sure anything you tweet is duplicated in a syndicate feed </span></li></ul><br />Follow me here and I'll keep you posted on my progress with this and offer advice. Thanks for your attention.<br /><span style="background-color: white; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;"></span><div style="background-color: white; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: charter, Georgia, Cambria, "times new roman", Times, serif; font-size: 19px; letter-spacing: -0.057px;"><div class="entity-url-preview" style="border-radius: 8px; border: 1px solid rgb(225, 232, 237); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 10px 0px 0px; max-width: 100%; width: 700px;"><div class="d-flex justify-content-between align-items-center" style="align-items: center; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; justify-content: space-between;"><div class="border-right align-self-center" style="align-self: center; border-right: 1px solid rgb(222, 226, 230); box-sizing: border-box;"></div></div></div></div><br />photo of Elon Musk is in the public domain. see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SpaceX_CEO_Elon_Musk_visits_N%26NC_and_AFSPC_(190416-F-ZZ999-006)_(cropped).jpg</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-35322554862755575572022-09-14T12:27:00.004-07:002022-09-14T13:30:20.250-07:00"The Earth Will Be Fine, It's Humanity that Needs Saving" NOTI find it odd that people are telling themselves "The earth will be fine; it's humanity that needs saving." I am firmly convinced that neither part of this is true.<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMVJeVreKlpKOwtFIgvNffvns_kg1b2rOiEczI0PPoSi2GAsLABV21cwq16sk6cMTeoDoC93tXzpPsyCs1Dv_K23pH8ZgVpMh97SKlX_x9EDGQi8ZD3ju5n9vV5GlCQevkOBVaUdK4ePaRTrzuFFjH6BnlaocmnHVKe9mQw_yGWCxFeS5lAy9DNrT8Dw/s1226/Screen%20Shot%202022-09-14%20at%203.24.54%20PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="666" data-original-width="1226" height="355" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMVJeVreKlpKOwtFIgvNffvns_kg1b2rOiEczI0PPoSi2GAsLABV21cwq16sk6cMTeoDoC93tXzpPsyCs1Dv_K23pH8ZgVpMh97SKlX_x9EDGQi8ZD3ju5n9vV5GlCQevkOBVaUdK4ePaRTrzuFFjH6BnlaocmnHVKe9mQw_yGWCxFeS5lAy9DNrT8Dw/w652-h355/Screen%20Shot%202022-09-14%20at%203.24.54%20PM.png" width="652" /></a><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><br />Yes, it is all too plausible that humans will encounter a massive mortality event. But neither conclusion follows.<br /><br />The earth will not be fine because the worse humans do, the more severe the extinction event will be on the way down. Desperate people do much more environmental damage than comfortable ones, for instance, finding wood to burn for fuel. Ocean acidification, soil depletion, microplastic pollution, trace chemical distribution, these sort of things aren't going away when we do. A major extinction event depletes the earth for millions of years.<br /><br />And humanity viewed *as a species* does not need saving because in the event of a major extinction, we are the most stubbornly adaptable species ever.<br /><br />The most likely outcome of continuing collective human stupidity will be a great loss of human life, yes, but we will be the LAST vertebrate species to go utterly extinct, and one of the last species altogether, vertebrate or not. We are heading for a much depleted planet with a few people huddling in highly engineered environments, not some imagined return to Eden.<br /><br />I am sorry to say this, but it is clearly the more likely outcome. I think people want to think otherwise because it helps them to deal with their terror and guilt. Alas, hoping for a return of the natural past after humanity is gone is not the right way to cope, because it is not going to happen.<br /><br />Always remember that it's easier to Mars-form the earth than to terraform Mars.<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div><br /></div>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-39937455421198772162022-03-08T07:34:00.004-08:002022-09-14T12:21:39.570-07:00mt's position on climate summarized:<p> While I am a bit disengaged on climate right now, largely because I think we have more immediate existential threats than climate, I want to say a few things in case we don't succumb to our present dysfunctions.</p><p>In brief, I am NOT saying we don't need cost-benefit analysis, nor am I saying that money isn't important. What I AM saying is, hmm, five things.</p><p>===</p><p>mt's position summarized:</p><p>1) Money tells you nothing on century time scales.</p><p>2) Even if money did tell you something on long time scales, IAMs tell you nothing about money on those timescales.</p><p>3) If we take climate change seriously, we are entering a HIGH growth period, not a low growth one! People get this backwards.</p><p>4) Every decarbonization policy is a carbon tax. We're only debating details.</p><p>5) Economics as currently constituted can help us reach our objective but can't help us set it. We should just just stick to 2 C.</p><p>===</p><p><br /></p><p>1) Money tells you nothing on century time scales.</p><p>Money is a metric that is valuable in the short term but meaningless in the long. We don't know what the cost function we ought to be that we're optimizing for. Total dollar equivalent wealth or total dollar equivalent economic throughput are signs of thriving in the short run but there is no reason to believe that across scenarios the world with the greatest gross economic product or the greatest constant-dollar denominated wealth will be the one we prefer. </p><p><br /></p><p>2) Even if money did tell you something on long time scales, IAMs tell you nothing about money on those timescales.</p><p>We need economists to think about these things, and we need ways to evaluate tradeoffs and outcomes over the long run, but I see very little sign that economics (or the IAM community if regarded as separate from economics) as currently constituted has any meaningful skill at doing so. The fact that we WISH IAMs were useful, and that IAMs are indeed an inevitable exercise, in no way indicates that their results are useful. I have looked under the hood of DICE. Its approach is risible, and anyone familiar with conceptual modeling and simulation of physical systems would (or at least should) dismiss it as worthless. </p><p>Look. I read Asimov's Foundation series as a child. I love the idea that the future could somehow be predictable using statistical methods. But Salvor Hardin's dream is obviously impossible. And even if in some universe it were possible, it wouldn't be possible in an Excel spreadsheet taking ten year time steps. </p><p>IAMs are toys. You can't be basing policy on them. Just because you wish they were useful doesn't make them so.</p><p><br /></p><p>3) If we take climate change seriously, we are entering a HIGH growth period, not a low growth one! People get this backwards.</p><p>Following on point 1, there's a bit of a conundrum in the observation that short term policy (to me, obviously) optimizes for increasing economic throughput aka "growth" and long term policy (to me, obviously) does not. This requires a direction of serious thinking from specialists of which I have seen precisely none; instead there's some rather simple-minded polarization between "pro" and "anti" growth. I despair for the academy sometimes. It may have once been a bit less stupid; I suspect so.</p><p>Fortunately, as Tidal has convinced me in our conversations, there is no rush in resolving this if we take decarbonization seriously. The amount of economic activity required to replace our energy infrastructure in a reasonable time is immense. If we take this on, it will be an enormous, sustained, multi-decadal stimulus to growth, whether we should or do wish it were so or not. </p><p>This is a recent change in my perspective.</p><p><br /></p><p>4) Every decarbonization policy is a carbon tax. We're only debating details.</p><p>I'm opposed to relying on a direct proportional carbon tax as the sole method to achieve carbon neutrality; it puts the burden on small users rather than large ones. It will exacerbate already fierce competition between rural conservative/reactionary impulses and urban liber/radical ones. It basically amounts to a wealth transfer from rural areas to urban ones. It's only going to make the politics of the situation that much harder.</p><p>But that said, some people think it's a bad thing when the price of fossil energy goes up and at the same time are concerned about climate. This doesn't work. Any adequate policy of any sort *will* create an artificial scarcity which *will* drive prices up. Any policy which keeps prices down will encourage continued use. This totally obvious to anyone with the slightest sense of what economics is. It isn't Nobel-worthy economics! (I'm not sure, though, that anything is.) </p><p><br /></p><p>5) Economics as currently constituted can help us reach our objective but can't help us set it. We should just just stick to 2 C.</p><p>One might wish that it were otherwise, but (see points 1 and 2) we don't have enough skill in economics to set a target. Consequently we need to set a target (GMST, CO2 concentration, emissions pathway) more or less intuitively. For a number of reasons I think 2 C is a good one. I would suggest that one reason for using it as a stretch goal is that twenty years ago it was being talked about as a worst case. </p><p><br /></p>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-91178532067859424052022-02-23T14:43:00.000-08:002022-02-23T14:43:05.089-08:00A conversation with Google support<p> <span style="color: #3c4043; font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.75rem; text-align: center;">You’re connected with agent Grace.</span></p><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb" data-ts="1645649990569" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Pb" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 0.75rem; line-height: 1rem; margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center;"><div class="systemMessageTimestampWrapper" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">3:59 PM</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645649995165" id="event_1645649991231" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">2-4213000032568<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" /><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" />Hi Michael Tobis. Thanks for being a Google One member. My name is Grace. How are you today?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645649991231" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 3:59 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650037005" id="event_1645650036934" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">OK thanks</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650066018" id="event_1645650065958" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I'm getting emails from an account hosted elsewhere flagged by gmail.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650083983" id="event_1645650083910" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Gmail could not verify that it actually came from <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Felectricstreet.art" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">electricstreet.art.</a> Avoid clicking links, downloading attachments, or replying with personal information.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650101602" id="event_1645650101526" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">This is interfering with my relationships with customers and vendors</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650115657" id="event_1645650115598" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">My hosting service says DKIM is set up correctly</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645650115598" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:01 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650119712" id="event_1645650118848" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I see, don't worry we will check on that.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650194332" id="event_1645650193468" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I’ll do my best to help you. If we can’t find a solution, I will collect feedback for our developers and give you an external resource you might be able to use.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650258380" id="event_1645650257512" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Can you please provide me with a screenshot of the error message you were getting when trying to send email messages?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645650257512" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:04 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650282024" id="event_1645650281966" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">The messages go through but they are flagged as quoted above...</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650356171" id="event_1645650356101" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Cb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="align-self: center; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 0px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_cb" id="attachmentFile0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f30653841415859746453613366703578734b465758734155411a00209be5073003" role="none" style="border-radius: 25px; border: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224); color: #4285f4; display: inline-block; margin: 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 15px); padding: 5px 5px 0px 10px; white-space: nowrap;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_db" id="attachImage0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f30653841415859746453613366703578734b465758734155411a00209be5073003" style="display: inline-block; height: 18px; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px; width: 18px;"><svg height="20px" version="1.1" viewbox="0 0 24 24" width="20px" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M0 0h24v24H0z" fill="none"></path><path d="M21 19V5c0-1.1-.9-2-2-2H5c-1.1 0-2 .9-2 2v14c0 1.1.9 2 2 2h14c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2zM8.5 13.5l2.5 3.01L14.5 12l4.5 6H5l3.5-4.5z"></path></svg></div><span class="chatsupport_cbf_Y" id="attachmentText0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f30653841415859746453613366703578734b465758734155411a00209be5073003" style="bottom: 0px; display: inline-block; font-family: "Google Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 0.95rem; margin: 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 30px); overflow: hidden; padding: 0px 4px 0px 2px; position: relative; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: top;"><a aria-label="Download attachment Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png" class="chatsupport_cbf_Y" href="https://realtimesupport.clients6.google.com/attachments/2-4213000032568/%3C08p11g00000000028c7a5k000369kcx68mj8chh6co30c1g6cp3adho@mail.gmail.com%3E/0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f30653841415859746453613366703578734b465758734155411a00209be5073003" style="bottom: 0px; color: #4285f4; display: inline-block; font-size: 0.95rem; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px 4px 0px 2px; position: relative; text-decoration-line: none; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: top;" target="_blank" title="Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png">Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png</a></span></div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645650356101" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:05 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650412111" id="event_1645650411228" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Checking, thanks.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650540831" id="event_1645650539963" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Alright, may i know when this issue started? And are you getting the same message when trying to send to other recipients?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645650539963" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:09 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650596681" id="event_1645650596621" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Yes, all email from <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Felectricstreet.art" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">electricstreet.art</a> is being flagged in this way; I have such an account and my wife has another. This was working fine until last weekend.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650710360" id="event_1645650710300" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I have admin privileges at the host. These emails have all been sent via gmail via the 3rd party host</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645650710300" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:11 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650751966" id="event_1645650751094" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Okay, and may I know if this email is a G=suite account or under Google My business?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645650751094" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:12 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650783081" id="event_1645650783020" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I have no idea...</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645650783020" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:13 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645650822219" id="event_1645650821346" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I mean this <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Felectricstreet.art" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">electricstreet.art</a> account, is it a Workspace account?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645650821346" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:13 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645650950764" id="event_1645650950699" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">My screen says "Google One" and I have a "Google My Business" account and I never have any idea what these terms mean.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645650950699" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:15 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651229772" id="event_1645651228894" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Alright, but the email you were having issues with is a Google My business email, right?</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651243010" id="event_1645651242134" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Sorry for the delays as I experience technical issues.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651242134" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:20 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651332438" id="event_1645651332378" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I'm sorry but I am confused. I manage a small business listing through Google My Business. I am looking to see if the emails are listed there, but I don't recall connecting any email to this listing.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651355224" id="event_1645651355162" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">The domain is managed by a2hosting</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645651355162" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:22 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651361140" id="event_1645651360235" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Alright.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651360235" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:22 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651387574" id="event_1645651387506" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">You guys are flagging emails from there suddenly and they don't see anything wrong on theor end</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645651387506" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:23 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651395240" id="event_1645651394346" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Please check your emails (both body and signature) for spammy content <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fe.g" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">e.g.</a> lots of exclamation marks; "must read"; attention getting, large and/or gaudy coloured text; text the same colour as the background; tiny text; [almost] zero height images; links hidden under text, images or links with a different URL; etc. All or any of these may mark you as a spammer at Google.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651394346" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:23 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651437720" id="event_1645651437658" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Promise there is nothing. We are a very staid little business. We sell original artworks and we communicate in plain text.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651455625" id="event_1645651455562" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">But the domain extension is ".art"</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651465752" id="event_1645651465682" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I am thinking this may have been a mistake!</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645651465682" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:24 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651587399" id="event_1645651586515" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I see.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651588952" id="event_1645651588047" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Also, if your recipients have previously marked your email as Spam, Google will have learnt from this. The recipients will need to mark as "Not Spam".<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" /></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651588047" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:26 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651632088" id="event_1645651632017" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Look, this isn't marked as spam, it is marked as "not authenticated"</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645651632017" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:27 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651728788" id="event_1645651727881" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Okay.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651729416" id="event_1645651728512" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">MIchael, when you create or set up the gallerista@electricstreet.art email account, have you done this via Google My business?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651728512" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:28 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651741003" id="event_1645651740945" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">no</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651771756" id="event_1645651771697" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Just through gmail settings</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645651771697" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:29 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645651877378" id="event_1645651876493" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Do you mean the gallerista@electricstreet.art is not an actual email?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645651876493" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:31 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645651932339" id="event_1645651932272" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">It is an email account at a2hosting; gmail is set up to interface to it.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652102106" id="event_1645652102048" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">We send from gmail; it authenticates with a third party host; then other people's gmail accounts flag it as illegitimate.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652142317" id="event_1645652142249" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Or, to be fair "unverified beware of the rabid tiger"</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652179515" id="event_1645652179440" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I *need* to know how to turn this off. Your help screen says something about DKIM, but DKIM is set up.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652179440" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:36 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652232832" id="event_1645652231940" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Alright, here is what we are going to do since your emails seem to be business email accounts which I have limited access to, we have a separate team that can help you further with this.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652261465" id="event_1645652260564" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I'll provide you with the contact link for better help.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652260564" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:37 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652288863" id="event_1645652288799" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I'm not sure that "business email accounts" is correct from your point of view. These are just accounts.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652342051" id="event_1645652341983" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">However if you wish to put me in touch with somone else I will be fine with trying again.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652341983" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:39 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652385854" id="event_1645652384960" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Please try this contact link <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fa%2Fanswer%2F1047213%23contact%3D1" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/a/answer/1047213#contact=1.</a></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652384960" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:39 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652407963" id="event_1645652407895" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I do not have a google workspace account</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652456325" id="event_1645652456263" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">So that won't work</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652511412" id="event_1645652511351" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">The hosting service says everything is OK on their end. I need to get Google to stop flagging me.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652511351" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:41 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652581689" id="event_1645652580795" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Okay, however your email does not have a Gmail domain, so this might be the issue preventing me from digging deeper in sorting things out.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652595567" id="event_1645652594663" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Kindly provide me the page where you originally created the email?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652594663" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:43 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652628684" id="event_1645652628622" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">page?</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652644884" id="event_1645652644822" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">This are ordinary gmail messages</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652644822" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:44 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652659953" id="event_1645652659055" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Yes, the site where you created gallerista@electricstreet.art account.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652659055" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:44 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652681291" id="event_1645652681214" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">you mean the host service? <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fa2hosting.com" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">a2hosting.com</a></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652681214" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:44 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652755783" id="event_1645652754854" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Checking,</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652888062" id="event_1645652887163" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Okay, I’d like to be respectful of your time and point you to the best resource to have your issue resolved. The Help Center is the same resource we’d use on our end.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652908166" id="event_1645652907239" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I'll check possible reasons why your email is being flagged.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652907239" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:48 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652918392" id="event_1645652918326" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Authentication-Results: <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fmx.google.com%3B" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">mx.google.com;</a><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" />spf=softfail (<a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%3A" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">google.com:</a> domain of transitioning gallerista@electricstreet.art does not designate <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> as permitted sender) <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fsmtp.mailfrom%3Dgallerista%40electricstreet.art" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">smtp.mailfrom=gallerista@electricstreet.art</a><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" />Received-SPF: softfail (<a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%3A" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">google.com:</a> domain of transitioning gallerista@electricstreet.art does not designate <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.48;</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652918326" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:48 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652948867" id="event_1645652947971" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Michael, can you please try to send screenshot instead?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652947971" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:49 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652957705" id="event_1645652957638" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Of the headers?</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652978017" id="event_1645652977950" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I already sent a screenshot of the warning</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645652977950" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:49 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645652993575" id="event_1645652992655" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">No, the authentication settings page.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645652992655" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:49 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652994606" id="event_1645652993527" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Cb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="align-self: center; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 0px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_cb" id="attachmentFile0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f61383541415859746e486554372d70347473346a7a676a39511a00209be5073003" role="none" style="border-radius: 25px; border: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224); color: #4285f4; display: inline-block; margin: 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 15px); padding: 5px 5px 0px 10px; white-space: nowrap;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_db" id="attachImage0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f61383541415859746e486554372d70347473346a7a676a39511a00209be5073003" style="display: inline-block; height: 18px; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px; width: 18px;"><svg height="20px" version="1.1" viewbox="0 0 24 24" width="20px" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M0 0h24v24H0z" fill="none"></path><path d="M21 19V5c0-1.1-.9-2-2-2H5c-1.1 0-2 .9-2 2v14c0 1.1.9 2 2 2h14c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2zM8.5 13.5l2.5 3.01L14.5 12l4.5 6H5l3.5-4.5z"></path></svg></div><span class="chatsupport_cbf_Y" id="attachmentText0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f61383541415859746e486554372d70347473346a7a676a39511a00209be5073003" style="bottom: 0px; display: inline-block; font-family: "Google Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 0.95rem; margin: 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 30px); overflow: hidden; padding: 0px 4px 0px 2px; position: relative; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: top;"><a aria-label="Download attachment Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png" class="chatsupport_cbf_Y" href="https://realtimesupport.clients6.google.com/attachments/2-4213000032568/%3C08p11g00000000028c7a5k000369kcx68mj8chh6co30c1g6cp3adho@mail.gmail.com%3E/0800122e2f737570706f72745f63617365732f626c6f62732f61383541415859746e486554372d70347473346a7a676a39511a00209be5073003" style="bottom: 0px; color: #4285f4; display: inline-block; font-size: 0.95rem; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px 4px 0px 2px; position: relative; text-decoration-line: none; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: top;" target="_blank" title="Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png">Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 4.05.00 PM.png</a></span></div></div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645652995639" id="event_1645652993526" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">here it is again</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653039079" id="event_1645653039014" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Look I found a clue "(<a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%3A" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">google.com:</a> domain of transitioning gallerista@electricstreet.art does not designate <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> as permitted sender"<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" /></div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653062881" id="event_1645653062814" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I am not sure what you are looking for, though</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653073710" id="event_1645653073654" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">My gmail settings for the account?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653073654" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:51 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653101580" id="event_1645653100678" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Yes, the authentication results.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653100678" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:51 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653124198" id="event_1645653124134" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I am sorry, what do you mean?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653124134" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:52 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653137484" id="event_1645653136574" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">And upon further checking, if this is about more on email forwarding issues , just note that some email software or services change the envelope sender to your domain when forwarding messages. If the envelope sender is changed to your domain for forwarded spam, Gmail might learn that your domain sends spam. Gmail might treat future messages from your domain as spam.<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" /></div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653174029" id="event_1645653173126" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I am referring to the authentication results that you have sent above, if you can send a screenshot instead of pasting the text.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653173126" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:52 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653193472" id="event_1645653193406" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Again, this isn't about spam. It's about "does not designate <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> as permitted sender"</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653193406" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:53 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653276148" id="event_1645653275230" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">You may refer to this community link <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fmail%2Fthread%2F26865570%2Fthe-e-mails-that-i-send-are-being-flagged-as-spam%3Fhl%3Den" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/mail/thread/26865570/the-e-mails-that-i-send-are-being-flagged-as-spam?hl=en.</a></div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653292368" id="event_1645653291446" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">You can see possible reasons there why you are being flagged.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653291446" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:54 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653337237" id="event_1645653337173" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">This is not being marked as spam</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653381788" id="event_1645653381725" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I'm sorry but I have already said this several times. This is not a spam filter issue.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653408830" id="event_1645653408765" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I am asking how to resolve "does not designate <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> as permitted sende</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653408765" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:56 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653469432" id="event_1645653468502" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Here is something about DKIM <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fmail%2Fanswer%2F9981691%3Fvisit_id%3D637812495711021292-2479296958%26rd%3D1" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9981691?visit_id=637812495711021292-2479296958&rd=1.</a></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653468502" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 4:57 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653533636" id="event_1645653533564" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">We have established that <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.161.48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">209.85.161.48</a> belongs to Google. So what is happening seems to be that Google does not trust Google.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653533564" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">4:58 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653604527" id="event_1645653603618" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">It seems that this might have something to do with your email domain. Gmail doesn't accept allowlist requests from third-party email senders. We can't guarantee messages will pass Gmail’s spam filters.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653603618" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:00 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653711009" id="event_1645653710940" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">This has nothing to do with spam.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653752825" id="event_1645653752764" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Two different gmail loging have both started sending out error messages to my customers telling them to beware of me.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653764970" id="event_1645653764908" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">and my partner</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653773422" id="event_1645653773348" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Pretty much simultaneously.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653872394" id="event_1645653872331" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;"><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fdmarcly.com%2Fblog%2Fhow-to-fix-spf-softfail-domain-does-not-designate-ip-as-permitted-sender" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">https://dmarcly.com/blog/how-to-fix-spf-softfail-domain-does-not-designate-ip-as-permitted-sender</a></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653872331" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:04 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653939931" id="event_1645653939017" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Alright, let me further check on this.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645653975704" id="event_1645653974789" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Please allow me 3 - 5 minutes.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645653974789" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:06 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645653992235" id="event_1645653992172" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I guess I need an IP range to permit</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645653992172" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:06 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654099632" id="event_1645654098713" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Let's see.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654132290" id="event_1645654131377" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">And when you try to send out using your personal email are you getting the same messages saying that it's been flagged?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645654131377" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:08 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645654206152" id="event_1645654206091" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">no, if I use mtobis@gmail.com as far as I know there is no problem. The problem is pretty clearly authentication at <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http%3A%2F%2Fa2hosting.com" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">a2hosting.com</a> accourding to the link I found (through your excellent search engine!)</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645654241322" id="event_1645654241259" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">It appears I have to greenlight some google IP addresses</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645654241259" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:10 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654297578" id="event_1645654296641" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Okay, thanks.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654599824" id="event_1645654598900" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Thanks for patiently waiting.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654673797" id="event_1645654672863" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Can we please try to add the email address in your contact and see if it's not blocked?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645654672863" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:17 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645654698996" id="event_1645654698930" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">Again I don't understand your question</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645654698930" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:18 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645654811042" id="event_1645654810115" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Can we please try to add the email address in your contact?.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645654810115" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:20 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645654898458" id="event_1645654898401" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">"the email address in your contact"? I do not know what you mean</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645654989870" id="event_1645654989810" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">You probably should be pointing me to <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fa%2Fanswer%2F10684623%3Fhl%3Den" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/a/answer/10684623?hl=en</a></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645654989810" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:23 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655103983" id="event_1645655103015" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Oh, please try these steps.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655116289" id="event_1645655115339" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Please open the email from the sender you want to add to your contacts.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645655115339" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:25 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655223666" id="event_1645655223585" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I think you're typing into the wrong conversation at this point.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655372535" id="event_1645655372472" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">There is no "sender" other than myself</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645655372472" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:29 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655421336" id="event_1645655420402" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">I mean the recipient.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655425022" id="event_1645655424094" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Then please tap the three dots icon to the right of the message.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655715861" id="event_1645655714926" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib chatsupport_cbf_i" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; visibility: hidden; width: 32px;"></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Please let me know if you need more time.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645655714926" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:35 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655717341" id="event_1645655717216" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">You want me to open the headers of the message I sent?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645655717216" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:35 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655762375" id="event_1645655761433" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">The email where you get the error message.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645655761433" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:36 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655771786" id="event_1645655771720" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I have clicked the 3 dots</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655815020" id="event_1645655814951" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">The sender doesn't see the message; the recipient does. I can give you either one as I have two accounts open in 2 browsers</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645655814951" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:36 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655862370" id="event_1645655861407" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">Then please click Add to Contacts list and it will be saved instantly.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645655861407" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:37 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645655884779" id="event_1645655884719" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">I'm sorry, add whom to whose contacts?</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Db" id="event_timestamp_1645655884719" style="color: #3c4043; float: right; font-size: 12px; left: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-align: right; width: 275px;">5:38 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" data-ts="1645655988200" id="event_1645655987261" participant="06614030226609495182" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div aria-label="Agent Grace." class="chatsupport_cbf_Hb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" role="img" style="align-items: center; background-color: #e8f0fe; border-radius: 50%; color: #1a73e8; display: flex; float: left; font-size: 24px; height: 32px; justify-content: center; line-height: 1rem; margin: 4px 7px 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; width: 32px;">G</div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Ib" style="background-color: #f1f3f4; border-color: rgb(218, 220, 224); border-radius: 4px 20px 20px 4px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #202124; float: left; margin: 3px 0px 0px; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 12px 7px 7px; word-break: break-word;">To your contact please.</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Ob chatsupport_cbf_Ib" id="event_timestamp_1645655987261" style="color: #3c4043; font-size: 12px; left: 50px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: calc(100% - 60px);">Grace · 5:39 PM</div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645656032741" id="event_1645656032663" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">The sender or the recipient? I have both accounts open.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645656092284" id="event_1645656092223" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">But I do not have access to the account of my customers and vendors, so cannot add a contact. Further, this will not resolve the issue with the SPF record.</div></div></div><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Gb chatsupport_cbf_Db" data-ts="1645656108000" id="event_1645656107943" participant="04911114889614332473" style="font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.875rem; line-height: 1.25rem; margin: 0px 4px; padding: 0px;" tabindex="0"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Fb" style="display: inline-flex; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 275px;"><div class="chatsupport_cbf_Eb chatsupport_cbf_Db" style="background-color: #e8f0fe; border-color: rgb(210, 227, 252); border-radius: 20px 4px 4px 20px; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; clear: both; color: #1967d2; float: right; margin: 3px 0px 0px auto; max-width: calc(100% - 100px); padding: 7px 7px 7px 12px; word-break: break-word;">This is not a spam filter issue.</div></div></div>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-72347556424416804152021-07-22T10:47:00.007-07:002021-07-22T11:23:20.921-07:00On the Essentialness of the Inessential (or, The Resto Rant)<p><b></b></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><b><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1Aus_obI6u0MBhZKqqgKu4WUYoQVXDiL3EURee2vUVoxQBj_p_fOtfPFCm8tkYRUXXAngRV0btsdGz9kKj1_DJ8E1HwbrbCSdn2GowrXr9Mhnl3FAtbcQtq7m074wdK5gfDEqnJYDyrKn/s1462/Screen+Shot+2021-07-22+at+1.46.26+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1122" data-original-width="1462" height="358" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1Aus_obI6u0MBhZKqqgKu4WUYoQVXDiL3EURee2vUVoxQBj_p_fOtfPFCm8tkYRUXXAngRV0btsdGz9kKj1_DJ8E1HwbrbCSdn2GowrXr9Mhnl3FAtbcQtq7m074wdK5gfDEqnJYDyrKn/w466-h358/Screen+Shot+2021-07-22+at+1.46.26+PM.png" width="466" /></a></b></div><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #e69138; font-size: large;"><b><br /></b></span><span style="color: #e69138; font-size: large;"><b>The shutdown taught us that if rich people don't indulge themselves, poor people starve. <br /></b></span><span style="color: #e69138; font-size: large;"><b><br /></b></span><span style="color: #e69138; font-size: large;"><b>This is obviously a design flaw in the economy. </b></span></h3><p><i>(I wrote this at the peak of the shutdown. I should have posted it then, but the lesson still holds.)</i></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">The economic lesson of the pandemic is this:<b><span style="color: #b45f06;"> the inessential has become essential</span></b>. I’d like to consider this as a design flaw. How can we repair our society so that luxuries for those of us with more access to capital are not necessities for those with less?<br /><br />Here’s the paradox: for rich people expensive restaurants are a luxury, but for society as a whole, they and their like have become necessities! The same can be said for other luxuries; travel and furnishings come to mind. But let’s consider restaurants. <br /><br /><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">THE REQUIEM</span></b><br /><br />Since I get most of my news (and these days, my daily fix of the Spelling Bee game) from the New York Times, I have been offered up a lot of requiems for restaurants from underemployed restaurant critics. <br /><br />Here’s a typical example; well-written and fluent, I suppose, but wholly unsurprising and verging on predictable:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/opinion/sunday/restaurants-closing-covid.htm">https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/opinion/sunday/restaurants-closing-covid.htm</a>l</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">The Greatest Restaurant City in America Is Hurting More Than You Know</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br />Subtitled “The coronavirus has come for the trattoria you love.” it’s an op-ed about the loss of restaurants in New York City.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="margin: 0px; text-align: left; white-space: pre-wrap;">Away from the city or cloistered in our apartments or hesitant to visit communal spaces until the pandemic ebbs, we won’t know or register that a beloved trattoria is gone until some safer day when we try to make a reservation and learn that there’s nothing at 8 p.m. or even at 5:30 p.m. because there’s nothing, period. Until we walk down the street where sated brunch-goers once spilled out of our favorite bistro and see an empty, still patch of sidewalk instead.</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">NECESSITIES VERSUS LUXURIES</span></b></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Restaurants provide a mix of services of luxury and necessity. <br /><br />On the one hand, everyone must eat; few of us want to cook every meal we eat, and many of us lack the time or the skills. Outsourcing cooking and the ancillary support activities (shopping, dishwashing) outsources a necessary service. </p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br />On the other hand, a restaurant cannot survive without providing palatability. The customers can always take their custom to a comparably priced restaurant with tastier food. Between acceptable palatability and extraordinary culinary delight there lies a vast range, and it is the most extraordinary experiences that are no longer available that we rue the most. <br /><br />This complicates my case a bit; each individual has their own standards for minimal palatablity. But surely for most people it doesn’t cost more than say $US 30 to prepare and present an adequately palatable meal, so for purposes of clarity, lets say that anything costing more than $30 to the diner constitutes a luxury service.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">MOURNING THE LUXURIES</span></b><br /><br />Let’s start with two obvious observations<br /><br />1) Nobody *needs* a $200 meal.<br />2) Few people would refuse a gift of, say, a gift of a pair of $200 meals at their preferred restaurant with their preferred companion.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">As $200 restaurants go away, there is definitely a real loss. But what does that loss mean in a time of emergency? </p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">DEFENDING THE LUXURIES<br /></span></b><br />The restaurant requiem genre is not about whether it will remain possible to pick up a soup and a sandwich. That doesn’t seem to be at risk. What is at risk, rather, is the unique personal vision of chefs and restaurateurs. And of course, any of us who can afford this luxury will mourn the loss of such opportunities.
<br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">But the author is presumably aware of how much struggle and fear there is in the world today, and how decadent bemoaning the loss of such luxuries appears in this context. “First world problems” and all. So a common refrain in the Restaurant Requiem is to bemoan the fate of the (mostly underpaid and frequently exploited) people who manage to glean a meager living from the industry. </p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">And it’s not just the owners and managers and cooks and bartenders and servers and dishwashers who are losing — though their pain, make no mistake, is most acute. It’s all of us, and we have absolutely no idea how much we’ve lost.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">...</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">The tragedy is national of course, and it has had profound effects on the American economy because, as Matt Goulding <span style="text-decoration-line: underline;">noted in The Atlantic</span>, the restaurant industry “generates $900 billion a year and employs 15 million people.” He meant in normal times. That’s what it <span style="font-style: italic;">did </span>generate; that’s what it <span style="font-style: italic;">did </span>employ. Not now.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">...</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">“People don’t understand how large a ripple effect on the economy one 30-seat restaurant can have,” said Gabriel Stulman, who <span style="text-decoration-line: underline;">has had to close two</span> of his nine Manhattan restaurants. What dies along with a restaurant is money that went to a landlord, to food producers, to food deliverers, to linen suppliers, to appliance repair workers. “For most people in our industry, 90 cents of every dollar that we make goes back into the economy in one form or another,” Stulman told me.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">This sort of talk is deemed as necessary but it’s also deemed as sufficient. My luxury is not decadent. My luxury “provides employment for less fortunate people” and “stimulates the economy”. </p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">And there’s the end of it. Everybody knows that full employment is the goal of society, and that to attain it the economy must be stimulated. Not the ‘droids you’re looking for. Nothing more to see here.
<br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">THE NECESSITY OF LUXURY</span></b></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">There is a Jedi mind trick happening here, and to see through it we have to consider what is going on at the whole systems level.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">In past emergencies, society was urged to “tighten its belt”, to bravely accept a certain level of privation for the benefit of society as a whole. This changed notably in recent decades. <br /><br />After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when the economy was reeling, President G W Bush encouraged everyone to keep spending.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="margin: 0px; text-align: left; white-space: pre-wrap;">“When they struck, they wanted to create an atmosphere of fear. ... Do your business around the country. Fly and enjoy America's great destination spots. Get down to Disney World in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life, the way we want it to be enjoyed.”</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><a href="https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010927-1.html">https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010927-1.html</a><br /><br />( see also <a href="https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159584/beyond-our-means">https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159584/beyond-our-means</a></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/consumer-spending-as-an-american-virtue.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/consumer-spending-as-an-american-virtue.html</a> )<br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">TIME magazine commented:</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="margin: 0px; text-align: left; white-space: pre-wrap;">Taken on its own, this wasn't such a horrible sentiment. But Andrew Bacevich has made a convincing case that it was part of a broader pattern of encouraging financial irresponsibility. "Bush seems to have calculated — cynically but correctly — that prolonging the credit-fueled consumer binge could help keep complaints about his performance as Commander in Chief from becoming more than a nuisance," Bacevich wrote in the Washington <span style="font-style: italic;">Post</span> in October. </p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /><a href="http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1872229_1872230_1872236,00.html">http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1872229_1872230_1872236,00.html</a></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><b><span style="color: #b45f06;">A SOCIETY ADDICTED TO INDULGENCE</span></b></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">What’s happened in living history is that <b><span style="color: #b45f06;">we have developed a system that itself is addicted to luxury</span></b>.
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If wealthy people stop indulging their whims, poor people starve. <br /></b></span><br />It seems to me likely that this wasn’t the case in the past; luxury consisted of a small enough fraction of the economy that the rise of fall of particular luxury sectors had modest effect on society as whole. Regardless of whether my surmise is true, we do now have a situation in which many people of modest means coping with necessity are dependent on fewer wealthy people indulging expensive whims. <br /><br />One might naively anticipate that the less wealthy person, with less demand upon them to serve the whims of the wealthy, would be blessed with additional leisure.</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">What’s missing, of course, is the capacity for that person, now underemployed, to allocate resources.
In the present emergency, the resources are still there, though. The essential sectors, farming and shipping, are functioning at only slightly reduced capacity. <b><span style="color: #b45f06;">That poor people are going hungry because rich people are demanding fewer plates of pappardelle with sea urchin is not a law of nature. </span></b></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">It strikes me as a design failure, a deep flaw in social organization. The production of essentials is solid. But the poor person is denied a way to allocate that production because of the absence of demand for supposedly "inessential" services. So we are left encouraging a revival of demand for luxuries, for travel, for restaurants, for renovations. This is excused not because we miss those inessential indulgences but because poor people miss the essential employment that they "provide".</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">One might prefer a world in which, when expensive whims were less indulged, there would be more to share among everyone else. That the “inessential” has become “essential” is a conundrum that needs some serious thought. It ties into questions about the nature of money, of labour, of wealth, and most of all of "growth". </p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Some will argue that all of this is an inevitable necessity, that it's built into the human condition, but I don't think they have provided compelling arguments. I doubt that this bizarre paradox that we are living is even stable, never mind inevitable.
</p><p style="margin: 0px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></p>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-77205154454455298982021-02-22T08:40:00.000-08:002021-02-22T08:40:02.543-08:00Only Connect!<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtsPKyHzyiTVlRUZp6qV05rdo-OLFUtZg8_gm_Vdd_t3OdJTaY84lAndHEqJoLH4CULleNwpwgJRvbUqQSJf8Gyy560D-2H6EFlKleXyJO6sFWTUwTbGVz0tbJ9wz7Rzihu2PQJ-pbHtsQ/s1380/Screen+Shot+2021-02-22+at+11.30.38+AM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="644" data-original-width="1380" height="227" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtsPKyHzyiTVlRUZp6qV05rdo-OLFUtZg8_gm_Vdd_t3OdJTaY84lAndHEqJoLH4CULleNwpwgJRvbUqQSJf8Gyy560D-2H6EFlKleXyJO6sFWTUwTbGVz0tbJ9wz7Rzihu2PQJ-pbHtsQ/w487-h227/Screen+Shot+2021-02-22+at+11.30.38+AM.png" width="487" /></a></div><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><i> <span style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.03); color: #0f1419; font-family: -apple-system, system-ui, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; white-space: pre-wrap;">“Only connect! That was the whole of her sermon. Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer.”</span></i></div><p></p><i><div style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.03); text-align: center;"><span style="color: #0f1419; font-family: -apple-system, system-ui, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></span></div><div style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.03); color: #0f1419; font-family: -apple-system, system-ui, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; text-align: center; white-space: pre-wrap;">― E.M. Forster, Howards End</div><div style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.03); color: #0f1419; font-family: -apple-system, system-ui, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; text-align: center; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></div></i><br /><br /><br />Irene said something wonderful in our morning chat today: "The purpose of emotion is to guide behaviour."<br /><br />This formulation triggered a number of interesting thoughts.<br /><br />My first response was to consider the connection of planning to behaviour.<br /><br />Of course those of us who are educated as intellectuals intellectuals we are led to believe that planning SHOULD guide behaviour.<br /><br />Irene pointed out first of all that emotions (animal) are more deeply rooted than intellect (purely human). Older, more established in our evolutionary structure. We are more animal than human.<br /><br />We have, as individuals, limited reservoirs of will power that we can draw upon to override our emotional structure. Some of us seem to be better at it than others.<br /><br />Consider taking up a musical instrument. It's immensely frustrating at first. Many people WANT to play an instrument, but fewer of us can muster the self-discipline to tolerate the squawking, especially of our first instrument.<br /><br />We can override the frustration with will-power. We can over-ride it with externally imposed discipline. When I was a child I was subjected to piano lessons not through my own interest but through my mother's. (I rebelled after passing level 3 at the conservatory and quit.)<br /><br />I'm not a person with strong self-discipline. The reason I can play the piano now is because in my university years I discovered the black-note-blues. (a 12 bar blues pattern in e-flat requires only the black notes on the piano! It's super easy to improvise a solo.)<br /><br />David Bloom (bloomschoolofjazz) helped immensely by saying that you should find a way to ENJOY playing scales.<br /><br />If you play scales out of will power, you'll do it a lot less than if you LISTEN to the beauty of the scales as you play them.<br /><br />Irene said her psychology/coaching practice was almost entirely based on this principle; to align emotional motivations with planning; to set up an environment where what you SHOULD do is what you WANT to do.<div><br />So we diverted a bit into "why art", "why music"? <br /><br />We agreed that humans love art and music because they are ways of communicating emotion. <br /><br />And communicating ties back into planning. And planning ties into our collective sustainability quandary. <br /><br />We started talking about how visual art emerged in cave wall drawings. I noted that the earliest drawings represented game animals. I speculated that they began as instructional videos. "You should aim your spear HERE to take out the animal."<br /><br />But then, suddenly "Wow! That's so cool. It really looks like a little bit like buffalo! I don't just want to kill a buffalo. I also want to be able to represent a buffalo. To give people that feeling of wow that I just had!"<br /><br />When we became a hunting species, we had to learn to cooperate. To cooperate, we needed to learn to communicate. So a love of complex communication became adaptive, evolutionary favoured.<br /><br />(And as a huge side benefit, it makes art and music possible.)<br /><br />But where does this leave us today, as we endeavour to organize ourselves in complex societies (hard enough) or as an entire world (harder still, and suddenly necessary)?<br /><br />Here's the "deficit model" fallacy, a problem which I think supposed experts in science communication have grossly misunderstood, but which is a real problem. Convincing someone of a fact is INSUFFICIENT to motivate a change in behaviour. On the other hand, I think it's beyond stupid to imagine a world where convincing someone of a fact is useless. (An implication that many seem to draw from the insufficiency of understanding to motivate change!)<br /><br />The issue is to connect. To connect to our animal motivations. Only connect!<br /><br />Propagandists and advertisers understand this perfectly. They are trying to motivate behaviour not primarily by convincing us of the superiority of their product or strategy, but by appealing to visceral emotional structures of fear, anger, pleasure. Animal emotions.<br /><br />How do we resist this manipulation? It can <i>only</i> be by connecting our emotions and our reason, as our distant cave-dwelling ancestors did when the first capacity to plan in groups emerged. If we survive this, it will be by taking visceral pleasure in reason.<br /><br />Only connect. </div><div><br /></div>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-54345025381467310182020-09-12T09:39:00.002-07:002020-09-12T09:39:16.395-07:00My father's blind date with Leonard Cohen's Sister<p><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="background-color: #f0f2f5;"><br />T</span><span style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-size: 15px;">his was not as a young man; my parents were married when they immigrated to Canada. It was shortly after my mother's passing, which would have been 1990 or '91.</span></span></p><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="color: #050505; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: arial;">She seems like a wonderful woman;</span></div><div dir="auto" style="color: #050505; font-size: 15px;"><a class="oajrlxb2 g5ia77u1 qu0x051f esr5mh6w e9989ue4 r7d6kgcz rq0escxv nhd2j8a9 nc684nl6 p7hjln8o kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x jb3vyjys rz4wbd8a qt6c0cv9 a8nywdso i1ao9s8h esuyzwwr f1sip0of lzcic4wl py34i1dx gpro0wi8" href="https://allanshowalter.com/2019/09/07/in-memoriam-esther-cohen-leonard-cohens-sister-died-sept-7-2014/?fbclid=IwAR0Q2V0J8WWUjaWKI8Pz4caouqyW4WivJo4KGRUohUIcnS6TJrgIUAONBH8" rel="nofollow noopener" role="link" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: transparent; border-color: initial; border-style: initial; border-width: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; cursor: pointer; display: inline; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: none; padding: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration-line: none; touch-action: manipulation;" tabindex="0" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: arial;">https://allanshowalter.com/2019/09/07/in-memoriam-esther-cohen-leonard-cohens-sister-died-sept-7-2014/</span></a></div><div dir="auto" style="color: #050505; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYDPT_j6UOa064jvdnAUKgLqBZ5aQykEuJbjaq73kY_1FuBTfA9tAoP4beBZgiqMcRRiStwFLc6xtKo8u2ZBENxq3hOB8ZWI9e8BajZU4NzvzGaVcUOUbayTT8m_un1q9a9aq5dOdfVoab/s892/Screen+Shot+2020-09-12+at+12.37.30+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="892" data-original-width="708" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYDPT_j6UOa064jvdnAUKgLqBZ5aQykEuJbjaq73kY_1FuBTfA9tAoP4beBZgiqMcRRiStwFLc6xtKo8u2ZBENxq3hOB8ZWI9e8BajZU4NzvzGaVcUOUbayTT8m_un1q9a9aq5dOdfVoab/s320/Screen+Shot+2020-09-12+at+12.37.30+PM.png" /></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><br /></span></div><div dir="auto" style="color: #050505; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; text-align: center;">Shown: Esther and Leonard Cohen</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">The date must have been arranged through some network of Jewish widows and widowers in Montreal.</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">My father was an arrogant self-absorbed person at the best of times, his main charm being as a raconteur. He had a repertoire of stories and jokes, but a hard shell beyond that point and an astonishingly complete lack of human empathy. As he got older, he lost the knack of being a good center of attention without picking up any skill at paying attention to others. So I'm not surprised there was no second date.</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">I found out about it because my father asked me if I had "ever heard of this Leonard Cohen", which shows how well he knew me. I had collections of his poetry from when they were small runs on a marginal press in Montreal. He's been a huge influence on me all my life. I allowed as I had heard of him.</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">When my father found out Esther was related to someone famous that he had never heard of, he was eager to meet the fellow, but Esther said "well, he's a very private person" or something to that effect.</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">A few years later, on a pilgrimage to City Lights bookstore in San Francisco, I picked up a recent volume of Leonard's and chanced to mention my father's blind date to the dude at the cash. He said "wow, so Leonard Cohen could have been your uncle!"</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql" style="background-color: #f0f2f5; color: #050505; font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, ".SFNSText-Regular", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0.5em 0px 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="font-family: inherit;">It was a confusing observation, but I'm good with it. Leonard Cohen is my contingent imaginary uncle. I feel even closer to him now. But just the same I'm glad the poems about my father never got written.</div></div>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-59592096471868674262020-04-29T14:49:00.003-07:002020-04-29T15:17:40.091-07:00What I want to know<div class="" data-block="true" data-editor="8k3q6" data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0" style="background-color: white; color: #050505; white-space: pre-wrap;">
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<span style="background-color: #efe8dc; color: #382c14; font-family: "platform web" , "helvetica neue" , sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.8px; white-space: normal;">A tea bowl from the Joseon Dynasty of Korea, 16th century, repaired using the kintsugi technique, which involves gold powder.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a class="caption-credit" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tea_bowl,_Korea,_Joseon_dynasty,_16th_century_AD,_Mishima-hakeme_type,_buncheong_ware,_stoneware_with_white_engobe_and_translucent,_greenish-gray_glaze,_gold_lacquer_-_Ethnological_Museum,_Berlin_-_DSC02061.JPG" rel="nofollow" style="background-image: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; box-sizing: border-box; caret-color: rgb(56, 44, 20); color: rgb(56, 44, 20) !important; font-family: "Platform Web", "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.12em; line-height: 1em; text-decoration-line: none; text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: uppercase; white-space: normal;" target="_blank">DADEROT/WIKIMEDIA/PUBLIC DOMAIN</a></span><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
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<div class="_1mf _1mj" data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0" style="direction: ltr; position: relative;">
<span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Basically, pure capitalism and pure communism are well-nigh indistinguishable - both can work pretty well with responsible people in power, but not otherwise. Vast systems with complex hierarchies and powerful leaders emerge in both. Bureaucracies thrive. The differences become more symbolic than substantive.
Pure capitalism and pure communism are similar not only in their result but in their deontological prespective. They start with a set of principles, and emerge with a set of rules, rules which they firmly believe to be in the best interests of humanity.
But here's the problem: it's all too easy in these rule-based systems for power to be captured by irresponsible people, at which point all hell breaks loose.
In practice are also fundamentally agreed in their belief that the fundamental question of human governance is economic. They simply come to diametrically opposed positions on the question of "property".
Now, many would be in accord with me when I say that the truth must lie somewhere between "everything should be property" and "nothing should be property".
But it seems a bit surprising and radical nowadays to say that it's the wrong question. I'm not sure many would agree with me on that score. But hear me out.
I suggest that the fundamental question of human governance is not economic at all, though. It is ethical. Are the people with the most influence good people, or are they selfish fools? After all history isn't written by the rule set, it is written by the people who are most adept at influencing the system that results from those rules.
"Left vs right" is simply a distraction from "right vs wrong".
The answer to the ethical question, in a given polity, seems almost perfectly orthogonal to the question of economic organization or political tribe.
There are "good kings" and "bad kings". Good mandarins and bad. Good commissars and bad. Good billionaires and bad. Good presidents and bad.
"In what system by what means did you get to power?" Perhaps it doesn't matter. History cares whether you and those around you had empathy for the world around you after you achieved it, or not.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
But also, perhaps making systems *too* rule based leaves too many opportunities for sociopaths to find loopholes. I mean, there are just some things we shouldn't put up with, whether the rules successfully accounted for them or not.</span></span></span></span></span></span>
<span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">===</span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</div>
<span data-offset-key="4kvm0-0-0"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
</span></span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="" data-block="true" data-editor="8k3q6" data-offset-key="4f9h1-0-0" style="background-color: white; font-size: 15px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
<blockquote style="direction: ltr; position: relative;">
<span data-offset-key="4f9h1-0-0"><span style="background-color: rgba(245 , 248 , 250 , 0.78); color: #14171a; font-family: , , , "segoe ui" , "roboto" , "ubuntu" , "helvetica neue" , sans-serif;"><i>"Whoa, whoa, what I want to know, is are you kind?" </i></span></span><span data-offset-key="4f9h1-0-0"><span style="background-color: rgba(245 , 248 , 250 , 0.78); color: #14171a; font-family: , , , "segoe ui" , "roboto" , "ubuntu" , "helvetica neue" , sans-serif;"><i>
</i></span></span><span data-offset-key="4f9h1-0-0"><span style="background-color: rgba(245 , 248 , 250 , 0.78); color: #14171a; font-family: , , , "segoe ui" , "roboto" , "ubuntu" , "helvetica neue" , sans-serif;"><i>- Robert C Hunter</i></span></span></blockquote>
</div>
Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-33673784824471756502018-02-22T08:13:00.001-08:002018-02-22T08:13:49.248-08:00The Settled Science StrawmanSomeone on Quora asked<br />
<blockquote>
Why do people say "the science is settled" when it comes to climate change? Isn't the point of science that nothing is "settled?"</blockquote>
You might find my <a href="https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-say-the-science-is-settled-when-it-comes-to-climate-change-Isnt-the-point-of-science-that-nothing-is-settled/answer/Michael-Tobis?__filter__&__nsrc__=2&__snid3__=2032807020">answer</a> interesting.Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-77785390406929119942017-12-06T08:54:00.001-08:002017-12-06T09:59:33.151-08:00The Science Communication Cluetrain<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgLX2WJDI9bepq-p1Qt8z9xZi1BlFiEYAWsgS9CO7XJW38_TCNrgioz-sTGwJD-CnYE_vfl62zrjgXjy2KtBvITIhfae5ei3gHuNY8CIdMLybZd0K6H_hSeV9csaXJxyx6YpOm7_wm0oJ1/s1600/6087728783_3cf3ebd053_b.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="748" data-original-width="1024" height="234" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgLX2WJDI9bepq-p1Qt8z9xZi1BlFiEYAWsgS9CO7XJW38_TCNrgioz-sTGwJD-CnYE_vfl62zrjgXjy2KtBvITIhfae5ei3gHuNY8CIdMLybZd0K6H_hSeV9csaXJxyx6YpOm7_wm0oJ1/s320/6087728783_3cf3ebd053_b.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
David Roberts has <a href="https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/12/5/16732772/emotion-climate-change-communication">an article out on climate communication</a>. It seems to be generating some controversy and will surely generate some rebuttals. I too am frustrated by the academic specialists in "climate communication", and I have a few points to add.
<b><br /><br />This is Harsh, But It's Right</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
David says:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
What I take from the social science of climate-change communications is
that no one knows much of anything about what kinds of messages and
messengers have what kinds of long-term effects on behavior. At the very
least, these remain deeply subjective judgments.</blockquote>
The key qualifier here is "long-term". And I think this is exactly right.<br />
<b> </b><br />
<br />
<b>Social Science is Hard, But Working Hard Doesn't Guarantee Results.</b><br />
<br />
Social science is hard, but I am not convinced that there are "climate communication experts" who adequately consider what psychologists call "longitudinal" effects. To an oceanographer this is cringeworthy jargon, but it means "over a long time and multiple exposures".<br />
<br />
Climate communication doesn't actually occur in the small chunks that are easy to study; yet single-exposure experiments seem to dominate most of the studies I have seen.
<br />
<b><br /></b>
I'm not afraid to change my mind, so I'd welcome any updates or corrections to this observation, which aligns with David's.<br />
<b></b><br />
<br />
<b>It's All About Context</b><br />
<br />
There is a truism in advertising. I am not sure whether there is any research to support it, but most advertising people worth their salt will tell you it's the case. People usually don't take action until they receive a message from three sources that they take to be independent.<br />
<br />
It makes sense to me. The rule-of-thumb "three" is not the point. The point is that communication occurs within a communication context. People already have priors.
This means that any study that involves how a specific message moves people, absent the long-term context in which the message is received, is rather pointless.
<b> </b><br />
<br />
<b>The Context We're In Is Largely Designed by Evil Advertising Geniuses</b><br />
<br />
It's time to recall the <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2003/mar/04/usnews.climatechange">infamous Luntz Memo</a>:
<br />
<blockquote>
"The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science." What I take from the social science of climate-change communications is
that no one knows much of anything about what kinds of messages and
messengers have what kinds of long-term effects on behavior. At the very
least, these remain deeply subjective judgments.</blockquote>
<blockquote>
"Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. </blockquote>
<blockquote>
"Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate." </blockquote>
Luntz's campaign was tragically successful. We're now in a condition where the first thing many non-experts in climate think of in any climate context is "uncertainty". Even the most certain things (the greenhouse effect, the basics of the carbon budget, etc.) are tarred with this "excessive certainty"/"arrogance" brush.<br />
<br />
Consensus messaging is a part of the answer, but a direct response to the broken communication environment itself has to be part of the response, too. A very tall order for the sane members of the climate and energy policy communities.<br />
<br />
As individual scientists conveying our own opinions, it's unfortunately unavoidable, but fortunately not our issue. What we need to convey is expertise and sincerity. By far the best way to do that is to know what you are talking about and be sincere about it.<br />
<br />
<b>The "Fear Question"</b><br />
<br />
Does fear motivate? Of course it does. We wouldn't have evolved fear if it didn't motivate.
Does a fear-bearing message motivate? Well, sure it does, if you believe it. But first you have to decide if you believe it.<br />
<br />
People hearing the climate message are in a communication context where they have been encouraged to doubt the message.<br />
<br />
That is, individual messages are not the issue. The context is the issue. <br />
<br />
There is, I think, quite a lot to fear in this matter. So an entirely fearless message is either dishonest, crazy, or wrong.<br />
<br />
<b>The Scicomm Cluetrain</b><br />
<br />
I wish somebody would write a scicomm version of this: <a href="http://cluetrain.com/">http://cluetrain.com/</a><br />
<blockquote>
Markets are conversations. Their members communicate in language that is natural, open, honest, dir ect, funny and often shocking. Whether explaining or complaining, joking or serious, the human voice is unmistakably genuine. It can't be faked.
<br />
<br />
Most corporations, on theWhat I take from the social science of climate-change communications is
that no one knows much of anything about what kinds of messages and
messengers have what kinds of long-term effects on behavior. At the very
least, these remain deeply subjective judgments. other hand, only know how to talk in the soothing, humorless monotone of the mission statement, marketing brochure, and your-call-is-important-to-us busy signal. Same old tone, same old lies. No wonder networked markets have no respect for companies unable or unwilling to speak as they do. </blockquote>
<blockquote>
<i>But learning to speak in a human voice is not some trick</i>, nor will corporations convince us they are human with lip service about "listening to customers." They will only sound human when they empower real human beings to speak on their behalf.
</blockquote>
<i>The most important thing is to speak with your own voice.</i><br />
<br />
My advice is to know what you're talking about, and talk about it in a way that your audience can absorb.<br />
<br />
If you have fears, say so, and don't pretend otherwise.
Leave the "communication research" to the politicians. Politics is a necessary evil, but it's not sufficient to the task at hand. We need well-informed people to tell the truth in their own way, in their own voice, honestly.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/23438569@N02/6087728783/in/photolist-nDpH27-ejk24-6gpi8v-dhNU1K-agXcF6-PM84A-dhNSV2-7fdLEL-4JX6gg-47Vx3j-N3L96-9CYiyK-df1cuS-dQKumD-4K2jH9-6cFKqF-dsoeXE-4K2keQ-e9dkyM-4bzQZm-nFPsrp-7f9UBV-bwPtxf-dso55g-4RiUam-6xNNwh-4Dm4SF-7w6piL-4K2kh1-5RWZA-5bgrP-hc5JkA-dj4Ybg-SZpcQ5-69a8Cs-47RuKz-4rQVwQ-ivEMSu-bvVx1q-9HFXL9-GDNvG2-CJj4Yb-4JX6ov-6Nq4N-rBe2EP-nDKcLa-dso4VK-nThX66-fDZoY4-47Rufr">Train image by "Extra Zebra"</a> is in the Creative Commons under license<span class="cc-license-icons"> </span></span><a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Attribution 2.0 Generic(CC BY 2.0) </span></a>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-59982726349580641622017-12-04T08:48:00.005-08:002018-01-08T19:03:42.745-08:00Quote Gallery II<i><br />See also <a href="http://initforthegold.blogspot.com/2001/01/quote-gallery.html">Quote Gallery I</a></i><br />
<i><br /></i>
<i>Contributions always welcome; use the comment section.</i><br />
<br />===<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">So far, we're not doing any better than the cyanobacteria.<br /><br />- Ray Pierrehumbert</span><br />
===<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Trivializing democracy; being anti-government; claiming all politicians
are evil; saying there are no differences between political parties;
stoking conspiracy theories; insisting that the civic sphere is all a
joke: These all serve the powerful.
<br /> </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Cynicism is obedience to power.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="https://twitter.com/AlexSteffen/status/950537371577040896">-Alex Steffen</a></span><br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">We don’t have a right to ask whether we’re going
to succeed or not – the only question we have a right to ask is: What’s the
right thing to do? What does this Earth require of us if we want to continue to
live on it?</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">- Wendell Berry</span></span><br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
For a very long time, the intellectual consensus has been that we can no longer ask Great Questions. Increasingly, it's looking like we have no other choice. <br />
<br />
-David Graeber in <i>Debt, The First 5000 Years</i><br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being too
late ... We may cry out desperately for time to pause in her passage, but time is
adamant to every plea and rushes on. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residue of
numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: "Too late".
<br />
<br />
- Martin Luther King Jr, 1967
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
The moon has no atmosphere so it is scorching hot (+100C) during the day and bitterly cold (-150C) at night. The Earth has an atmosphere made up of oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases. Over 150 years ago scientists proved that CO2 traps heat from the sun. <br />
<br />
We also know without any doubt that burning fossil fuels like oil, gas and coal emits CO2.
Measurements, not computer models or theories, measurements show that there is now 46% more CO2 in the atmosphere than 150 years ago before massive use of fossil fuels. That extra CO2 is like putting another blanket on at night even though you are already nice and warm.
<br />
<br />
The Earth is now 1.0 C hotter on average according to the latest measurements. Heat is a form of energy and with so much more energy in our atmosphere our weather system is becoming supercharged resulting in stronger storms, worse heat waves, major changes in when and where rain falls and more.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://stephenleahy.net/2017/05/16/climate-change-explained-in-165-words-2/">- Stephen Leahy</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
It is not widely understood that carbon dioxide persists in the atmosphere for centuries, so our future will depend on the total amount we humans put into it over the next several decades. This is the paramount fact that separates climate change from all other environmental problems.<br />
<br />
– Clive Hamilton <a href="http://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012-Clive-Hamilton-Denver-ASA-Talk.pdf">Utopias in the Anthropocene </a>
<br />
===<br />
<br />
In the end it’s not about finding policies that work, it’s about forging consensus and fighting cynicism. Can we do this?<br />
<br />
- Barack Obama
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
A tolerably good human future is possible if we work together toward it. It’s not a question of predicting. It’s a question of deciding.<br />
<br />
- mt
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
A journey of a thousand miles begins with deciding where you are going.<br />
<br />
-mt
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
People always ask me one question all the time: ‘How do I know that I won’t be found out as a supporter of what you’re doing?’ We run all of this stuff through nonprofit organizations that are insulated from having to disclose donors. There is total anonymity. People don’t know who supports us.<br />
<br />
- Richard Berman <a href="http://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012-Clive-Hamilton-Denver-ASA-Talk.pdf">describing how oil money gets transferred</a> to what he calls ‘Win Ugly’ political action
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
When the going gets tough, the people losing the argument start whining about civility.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012-Clive-Hamilton-Denver-ASA-Talk.pdf">Paul Krugman</a> (h/t Eli)
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. It was possible, no doubt, to imagine a society in which wealth, in the sense of personal possessions and luxuries, should be evenly distributed, while power remained in the hands of a small privileged caste. But in practice such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.<br />
<br />
- George Orwell (1984) via David Brin
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Qu’on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j’y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.<br />
<br />
- Richelieu
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
well-funded companies would love to disprove climate change to the satisfaction of the scientific community at large. So if scientists could be bought, these motherf***ers would have already made it rain in nerd town, trust me.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/jon-stewart-===congress-climate-change_n_5866400">Jon Stewart</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. … We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. … The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.<br />
<br />
- R. Buckminster Fuller 1970
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Projections of climate change by the IPCC are deeply skeptical, and there is no attempt to hide the large uncertainty of climate forecasts. … Ironically, those labeled “skeptics” by the media are not in fact skeptical; they are, on the contrary, quite sure that there is no risk going forward. Meanwhile, those interested in treating the issue as an objective problem in risk assessment and management are labeled “alarmists”, a particularly infantile smear considering what is at stake.<br />
<br />
- Kerry Emanuel
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
“Isn’t it sad that you can tell people that the ozone layer is being depleted, the forests are being cut down, the deserts are advancing steadily, that the greenhouse effect will raise the sea level 200 feet, that overpopulation is choking us, that pollution is killing us, that nuclear war may destroy us – and they yawn and settle back for a comfortable nap. But tell them that the Martians are landing, and they scream and run.”<br />
<br />
- Isaac Asimov in The Secret of the Universe
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Less semantic aggression might conduce to clarity all around.
- <br />
<br />
<a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-five-fold-path.html?showComment=1371688815306#c1779563458466330724">- Russel Seitz</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We don’t have time for a meeting of the flat-earth society.<br />
<br />
– Barack Obama, on climate change
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
It is good to know there are unknowns. It is better to know when you know enough.<br />
<br />
- Florifulgurator
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Men argue; nature acts.<br />
<br />
- Voltaire
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
If you think a journalist is asking the wrong question, don’t answer it – tell them what the right question is.<br />
<br />
- a Planet3.0 reader, paraphrasing Ed Yong, citing Tom Stafford
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
The community of scientists has responsibilities to improve overall understanding of climate change and its impacts. Improvements will come from pursuing the research needed to understand climate change, working with stakeholders to identify relevant information, and conveying understanding clearly and accurately, both to decision makers and to the general public.<br />
<br />
- American Geophysical Union statement <a href="http://www.agu.org/sci_pol/pdf/position_statements/AGU_Climate_Statement_new.pdf">“Human-induced climate change requires urgent action.”</a> revised August 2013
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
I was… labelled as an advocate because… I measured something.<br />
<br />
- ecologist <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX9uvyF58U0">Jeremy Jackson</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Resolved, that none of us know, or care to know, anything about grasses, native or otherwise, outside the fact that for the present there are lots of them, the best on record, and we are after getting the most out of them while they last.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth2412/m1/13/">Resolution of a Texas stockmen meeting ca. 1898</a>. (With a hat tip to Martin Gisser).
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening.<br />
<br />
- Marshall McLuhan
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with unlimited starlight, humans kill for energy buried in sand.<br />
<br />
- Neil deGrasse Tyson
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
If you’re talking to someone who isn’t following the climate change discussion very closely, they may not understand the difference between technical and political difficulty. It does them no favors to talk about inevitability and the fall of civilization. They’re either going to think you’re nuts or they’re going to join you in despondency. We need to always reinforce the point that we can make life a lot easier for ourselves (and especially our children and grandchildren) if we just choose to start doing something about it.<br />
<br />
- anonymous commenter at Planet3.0
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Here is the IPCC message: We are as certain that humans are radically changing the planet’s climate as we are that tobacco causes cancer.<br />
<br />
- <a href="https://twitter.com/PeterGleick/status/383387043167887360">Peter Gleick</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We don’t need more dead clutter to entomb in landfills. We need more options.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://planet3.org/beyond-sustainability-a-manifesto/">Bruce Sterling</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics, whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were and ask, why not?<br />
<br />
- John F. Kennedy
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Hope is not a lottery ticket you can sit on the sofa and clutch, feeling lucky. It is an axe you break down doors with in an emergency. Hope should shove you out the door, because it will take everything you have to steer the future away from endless war, from the annihilation of the earth’s treasures and the grinding down of the poor and marginal… To hope is to give yourself to the future – and that commitment to the future is what makes the present inhabitable.<br />
<br />
- Rebecca Solnit
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We hold the future still timidly, but perceive it for the first time, as a function of our own action. Having seen it, are we to turn away from something that offends the very nature of our earliest desires, or is the recognition of our new powers sufficient to change those desires into the service of the future which they will have to bring about?.<br />
<br />
- J. D. Bernal (1929) via David Grinspoon
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
“Global warming, huh? By pure coincidence every scientist was right”<br />
<br />
- Homer Simpson (the cartoon character)
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We do not share the view of many of our economics colleagues that growth will solve the economic problem, that narrow self-interest is the only dependable human motive, that technology will always find a substitute for any depleted resource, that the market can efficiently allocate all types of goods, that free markets always lead to an equilibrium balancing supply and demand, or that the laws of thermodynamics are irrelevant to economics.<br />
<br />
- Herman Daly and Joshua Farley via Tom Murphy
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Maybe we’ll be smacked by an asteroid we’re not looking at and it will offset the CO2 we’re not looking at.<br />
<br />
- Bruce Sterling
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Many people improving the environment think only in terms of the air they breathe in their hometown and the water in the aquifer under their hometown. My guess is very few are thinking centuries ahead or thousand of years ahead, but that’s what we have to do.<br />
<br />
- Pete Seeger
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
I’m just hanging on like grim death to the simple truth that giving up is just lazy. We have a commitment to life, because that’s all there is, and that’s all about it.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://planet3.org/2014/06/17/a-good-anthropocene/#comment-428671">Susan Anderson</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
We need at least ten times more editors than we need auditors.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://neverendingaudit.tumblr.com/">Willard</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
These arguments are not those of serious people.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/07/01/3455423/kentucky-marriage-ruling/">Judge John G Hayburn II</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Cynicism is a choice. Hope is a better choice.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/14/1307018/-President-Obama-s-remarks-at-UC-Irvine-commencement-ceremony">B H Obama</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
People often ask me if I’m an advocate for some kind of policy. Do I want everybody to have a carbon tax, do I want everyone to drive a Prius, do I want everybody to have a renewable energy standard? I have opinions about all of those things, but that’s not what I am advocating for. What I’d like to have people do is have an intelligent conversation about the problem of climate change. … But what actually happens is, that all of those things get subsumed. We have these fake arguments – we have these arguments about tree rings in the 15th century, as if anybody … was going to make a policy about what a tree said in the 15th century. It’s absurd.
- <br />
<br />
<a href="http://newyork.thecityatlas.org/people/gavin-schmidt/">Gavin Schmidt</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Climate change is a collective problem demanding collective action the likes of which humanity has never actually accomplished. Yet it entered mainstream consciousness in the midst of an ideological war being waged on the very idea of the collective sphere.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/climate-change-fight-of-our-lives-naomi-klein">Naomi Klein</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
It’s not that the scientists are alarmists – it’s that the science is alarming.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/a-call-to-arms-an-invitation-to-demand-action-on-climate-change-20140521">Bill McKibben</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Wind is God’s way of balancing heat. Wind is the way you shift heat from areas where it’s hotter to areas where it’s cooler. That’s what wind is. Wouldn’t it be ironic if in the interest of global warming we mandated massive switches to energy, which is a finite resource, which slows the winds down, which causes the temperature to go up? Now, I’m not saying that’s going to happen, Mr. Chairman, but that is definitely something on the massive scale. I mean, it does make some sense. You stop something, you can’t transfer that heat, and the heat goes up. It’s just something to think about.<br />
<br />
- Federal Representative Joe Barton, Republican of Texas, with a tip of the hat to Mr. Coke Dilworth, yellow dog Democrat of Austin TX<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Good people are not those who lack flaws, the brave are not those who feel no fear, and the generous are not those who never feel selfish. Extraordinary people are not extraordinary because they are invulnerable to unconscious biases. They are extraordinary because they choose to do something about it.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2014/04/09/the-hidden-brain-shankar-vedantam/">Shankar Vedantam</a> via Maria Popova
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Of all the dangers we face, from climate chaos to permanent war, none is so great as [the] deadening of our response.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/climate-solutions/the-greatest-danger">Joanna Macy</a> (h/t Martin Gisser and Dan Olner – follow that link!)
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
What do we most need to do to save our world? What we most need to do is to hear within us the sounds of the Earth crying.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/climate-solutions/the-greatest-danger">Thich Nhat Hanh</a>
<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
Since the start of the industrial revolution, mankind has been burning fossil fuel (coal, oil, etc.) and adding its carbon to the atmosphere as carbon dioxide. In 50 years or so this process, says Director Roger Revelle of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, may have a violent effect on the earth’s climate Dr. Revelle has not reached the stage of warning against this catastrophe, but he and other geophysicists intend to keep watching and recording. During the International Geophysical Year (1957-58), teams of scientists will take inventory of the earth’s CO2 and observe how it shifts between air and sea. They will try to find out whether the CO2 blanket has been growing thicker, and what the effect has been. When all their data have been studied, they may be able to predict whether man’s factory chimneys and auto exhausts will eventually cause salt water to flow in the streets of New York and London.<br />
<br />
- <a href="http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,937403,00.html">Time Magazine, 1956</a> (via Simon Donner)Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-60962696914824567912017-11-08T17:16:00.001-08:002017-11-08T17:16:25.057-08:00Farewell to Trolls<div class="storify"><iframe src="//storify.com/mtobis/no-more-troll-wars/embed?border=false" width="100%" height="750" frameborder="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe><script src="//storify.com/mtobis/no-more-troll-wars.js?border=false"></script><noscript>[<a href="//storify.com/mtobis/no-more-troll-wars" target="_blank">View the story "No More Troll Wars" on Storify</a>]</noscript></div>Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-37055597111259804642017-11-02T13:47:00.004-07:002017-11-02T13:47:59.175-07:00A Science Fiction DilemmaIn the Start Trek universe, travelers in deep space are always encountering other species that are of comparable technological and military capacity, competing for control of sections of the galaxy. I don't think it will work like that, but imagine if it did.<br /><br />The electromagnetic signal of our emergence as a technological species is some 70 years old, enough to penetrate a 70 light-year sphere, or to penetrate, say, a 25ish light year sphere and allow for space-faring civilizations to mount a mission to pay us a friendly first-contact visit.<br /><br />Imagine that there are two competing species approaching us now, about to make their pitches. <br /><br />Both are physically repulsive creatures, harder to look at than the most disturbing bugs or snakes, but both claim to come in peace and encouraging us to ally with them against their sinister opponent.<br /><br />How would we distinguish between these two?<br /><br />Imagine we had in the vaults enough data to reconstruct some information about their home worlds.<br /><br />One species' world is rich in plant life and we have enough information to conclude that it is a thriving biosphere. The other's is a smoldering wreck, and we conclude that any surviving species from that world must be maintained in enclosed life support bubbles much like their spaceships.<br /><br />Would this information affect your choice of which species to ally with?<br />
Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-21512069688859345032017-11-02T11:42:00.000-07:002017-11-02T11:57:46.202-07:00Mark Jacobson Abandons Science, Takes Up Barratry<div class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.technologyreview.com/the-download/609308/a-renewable-energy-champion-is-suing-his-scientific-critics/">Technology Review</a>:</div>
<blockquote style="background: rgb(237, 237, 237); border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: NeueHaas, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 25px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">
Stanford professor Mark Jacobson has <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-UIZYwE6YMvdTdySFZMbkxkbDA/view" style="background: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">sued</a> a prominent energy researcher and the National Academy of Sciences for defamation over a sharply-worded rebuttal of his work, shifting a heated scientific debate over renewable energy out of the journals and into the courts.<span style="background-color: transparent;"> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote style="background: rgb(237, 237, 237); border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: NeueHaas, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 25px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">
The suit, filed September 29 in a Washington, D.C., superior court, demands a retraction of a <a href="http://m.pnas.org/content/114/26/6722.abstract" style="background: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">June paper</a> in the <em style="background: transparent; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</em>. Jacobson seeks more than $10 million in damages from both the paper's publisher and its lead author, Christopher Clack, who is chief executive of Vibrant Clean Energy and a former NOAA researcher.<span style="background-color: transparent;"> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote style="background: rgb(237, 237, 237); border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: NeueHaas, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 25px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">
Jacobson was the lead author of a <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/112/49/15060.full.pdf?with-ds=yes" style="background: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">2015 paper</a> in the same journal that concluded wind, solar, and hydroelectric sources alone could supply 100 percent of the U.S. grid's needs, all at low cost.<span style="background-color: transparent;"> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote style="background: rgb(237, 237, 237); border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: NeueHaas, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 25px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">
Many other energy researchers have long argued that additional technologies, such as nuclear energy, carbon capture, and advanced storage options, will be required to decarbonize the electricity sector, particularly in a cost-competitive manner.<span style="background-color: transparent;"> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote style="background: rgb(237, 237, 237); border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-family: NeueHaas, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 25px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">
Earlier this year, Clack and 20 other researchers published a response arguing that, as <em style="background: transparent; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">MIT Technology Review</em> previously reported, Jacobson's paper "contained modeling errors and implausible assumptions that could distort public policy and spending decisions." (For more details on the researchers' critiques, check out our earlier article on the Clack paper: "<a href="https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608126/in-sharp-rebuttal-scientists-squash-hopes-for-100-percent-renewables/" style="background: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Sustainable Energy Scientists Sharply Rebut Influential Renewable-Energy Plan</a>.")</blockquote>
Jacobson wrote (what seemed to me at the time) a very bad paper. At least the climate modeling makes no sense, which caused me to doubt the rest of it.<br />
<br />
It got into PNAS without peer review. (That journal has a publication mechanism that allows some non-peer-reviewed articles.) <br />
<br />
If I and many others are right that his work is poor, that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong, just that the paper shouldn't be relied upon as evidence that his conclusion is right.<br />
<br />
Normally, bad work is quietly ignored, but this was getting enough publicity that a multidisciplinary team of highly regarded authors hastened to put together a rebuttal, and ran it through peer review.
Rather than correcting, amending, or defending his work, Jacobson chose to treat the challenge as libelous. This is inexcusable, even if the paper somewhat misrepresented Jacobson as he claims.<br />
<br />
(It is difficult to correctly represent incoherent argument, of course. If one criticizes one part of the argument it may be inconsistent with another part of the argument. )<br />
<br />
The context is that Jacobson is telling people what they want to hear, specifically that 100% renewable energy is possible with little cost or effort. That doesn't make him one of the good guys. <br />
<br />
This is not a schism within science. It's an attack on science from someone who doesn't accept the norms of science.
<br />
<br />
Attacks on science can't be tolerated, whether they come from people who tell you what you want to hear or people who tell your opponents what they want to hear. <br />
<br />
By taking this dispute outside the norms of science and into the courts, Jacobson essentially is rejecting and subverting science. His actions should not be seen as reflecting on the scientific community.
Without science, we are flying blind. Jacobson's behaviour is ridiculous, and the scientific community is having none of it. I hope the activist community, which claims to be such a strong supporter of science, backs us up.Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-91424310308130496802017-10-26T18:24:00.000-07:002017-10-27T07:00:32.191-07:00Quandaries about ethicsSo William objects to my argument from intergenerational equity on the grounds that I have claimed an ethical basis without specifying a coherent ethical theory, never mind one that can serve as the basis of a social contract.<br />
<br />
His point seems to be that it's easier to agree on a discount rate (which is after all just a number, not to mention one decided by a free market (of extremely wealthy actors, but never mind that, it's in some sense objective)) than to agree on a whole theory of ethics. And that absent any such theory of ethics, we can't decide anything on an ethical basis. Ergo, ethics doesn't matter, and therefore economics, QED.<br />
<br />
Contrast this with this <a href="https://twitter.com/stealthygeek/status/920085535984668672">interesting argument that life doesn't begin at conception</a>, intended to undercut ethical arguments against abortion:<br />
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<span style="text-align: start;">See also </span><a href="http://www.scarymommy.com/patrick-s-tomlinson-twitter-abortion/" style="text-align: start;">http://www.scarymommy.com/patrick-s-tomlinson-twitter-abortion/</a><span style="text-align: start;"> where Tomlinson's conclusion is discussed:</span></div>
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<br />
Here, ethics is derived from what "any rational [sic] human being" and "anyone with a beating heart" would agree to. I am not advocating a position on the claim that anyone would behave in this way, though I'm fascinated by the "argumentam ad ducking the question by missing the point of the analogy" aspect of some of the responses. "No they aren't viable", "no they don't weigh that much" etc. I am admitting that something about this way of arguing strikes me as unsatisfying, and I think that William is accusing me of doing something similar.<br />
<br />
Now to be fair, this is a trolley problem, an absurdly unrealistic distillation of reality, while climate change, alas, is something we actually are bequeathing to succeeding generations. <br />
<br />
But I'm saying "if we could distill this climate problem to its essence, people would not behave the way they are now behaving". That is, I am arguing from an innate ethical sense, just as Tomlinson is doing.<br />
<br />
As I keep saying, my position on ethics is fundamentally the traditional conservative one, the Tory one. It is that we do know good from evil in some sense, whether this is by nature or nurture, and that this understanding should be honoured rather than trivialized. In particular we should honour ethical standards that apparently arise in disparate cultures, such as acting in service of the eternal at the expense of our own personal benefit.<br />
<br />
That we increasingly lack a consensus on ethics seems to be core to both William's point and mine. Building an ethical consensus when it is breaking down is more difficult that maintaining an extant system that optimizes for self-interest and eschews any long view. I think we agree on this. Where we disagree is what to do about it. I think, in what I believe is a fundamentally Tory way, that we should reach back to our ancestors and try to understand what they'd think of our behaviour, and consider modifying it appropriately. William's position seems to me to be that it's too hard, and we need to settle for what economics will buy us, and hope that is enough.<br />
<br />
Tom's position is like that of the guy who refuses to answer Tomlinson's question. It isn't that we should or shouldn't temper economics with ethics. It's that climate isn't that big a deal. Of course, I find that position wrong, but in the present context it's worse than wrong, it's irrelevant. Do we owe something to the seventieth generation, specifically, a viable ecologically diverse planet? I say yes, and I say we're screwing it up spectacularly. William shrugs, defers to his friend the economist, and says, well, the ecological viability of the seventieth generation isn't worth much according to revealed preferences in the marketplace. Tom F says "squirrel".<br />
<br />
There's a new entrant in the field, Steve Mosher, who considers my explicit appeal to ethics "wacky and repugnant". I remain hopeful that Mosher is an outlier in making such a claim, that ethical discourse is acceptable to most people in deciding, well, what we should do. <br />
<br />
Notice the "should"?<br />
<br />
The trouble is that we don't really have an explicit ethical basis. It's possible that "life begins at conception" could be a consensus. The Spartans said "life begins when the infant is granted a name", allowing for postpartum abortion. This could also be an imaginable consensus. <br />
<br />
(I know I'm treading on dangerous ground here. Lord give me strength not to voice an opinion on this question!)<br />
<br />
But I do think that most people do not want to believe that their lifestyle is destroying the world for their grandchildren. <br />
<br />
Since in fact it quite arguably is doing exactly that, the easy approach is to resort to denial. "It's not really a problem." ("The embryos in the case are not really viable." "Global warming will have modest impact.") And a denial industry has arisen to serve exactly that predeliction, simultaneously protecting literally trillions of dollars in reserve fossil assets.<br />
<br />
But I'm venturing that "we should not irreversibly damage the world" is a proposition that a vast majority of people would agree to. An ethical consensus still exists, even if accompanied by no formal ethical philosophy. <br />
<br />
That being the case, denial that major change is necessary, without due consideration of the evidence that it is, is in violation of a global ethical consensus. <br />
<br />
So we're being bad. Evil, by our own, very limited but still extant, shared ethic.<br />
<br />
Mosher further suggests that it is impolitic to say so. I think that's weird, but that's another topic.<br />
<br />
Impolitic, repugnant, too difficult, lacking a coherent philosophy, squirrel. <br />
<br />
Sorry, I still vote none of the above. <br />
<br />
We may not agree when life begins. But we can still agree that it would not be a good idea to end it or drastically curtail its potential.<br />
<br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com54tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-51354918060662323912017-10-25T06:58:00.000-07:002017-10-25T07:11:14.827-07:00Why do we take from nature instead of integrating with it?<div class="tr_bq">
Someone <a href="https://www.quora.com/Why-do-we-take-from-nature-instead-of-integrating-with-it">asked this question on Quora</a>.</div>
<br />
I had the temerity to answer. Here's my answer:<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b>Why do we take from nature instead of integrating with it?</b></blockquote>
<blockquote style="color: #333333; font-size: 15px; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">That’s not a Quora question so much as a book topic, or indeed many books and PhD theses.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">But I’ll say a few things anyway. What follows is my opinion only. I can’t easily prove any of this but I do firmly believe all of it.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">How we live is a combination of how we lived in the past, how we think we should live in the future, and what we desire today. This doesn’t always lead to the best solutions.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Efforts to drastically fix things have often made things worse, sometimes terribly worse. Some people conclude from this that we should never try to fix things. But that obviously doesn’t work either.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">We need to learn from the past and still be aware that the future is very unlike the past. The thing we need to do less of is worry on a day to day basis.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The societies where day-to-day living is the most difficult have the least mental and emotional capacity for imagining how the future might be better. So the first thing we need to do, in each jurisdiction, be it nation or town, is to aim to be more generous and inclusive as a society. This is becoming a matter of urgency.</span></blockquote>
Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-88183947095192526132017-09-29T16:32:00.002-07:002017-10-26T18:44:05.896-07:00The Seventieth GenerationWhat do some of us mean when we say that climate change is an ethical problem, not merely an economic one?<br />
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<br />
Consider medieval Europe's habit of building cathedrals. There is no conceivable rational self-interest in expending resources to build a cathedral - the (oftentimes amazing) aesthetic value of the result of the enterprise occurs long after the lifetimes of the people planning and organizing the effort have come to an end.<br />
<br />
When Christian vernacular refers to matters outside the church as "secular", they provide an answer to this, which appears to the modern homo economicus as a puzzle. Secular literally means "of the century". It is usually contrasted with "sacred" but many contemporary readers will have too many associations with this term that I'd like to avoid for present purposes. Let's go with "eternal" for present purposes. "Eternity" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but the people planning the cathedral presumably weren't sparing much thought for its eventual ruination.<br />
<br />
"Secular" activities refer to the foreseeable future, while "eternal" activities correspond to activities in the interest of a distant future which we cannot foresee, but to which we nevertheless have a responsibility. Traditionally, our responsibility to the eternal has been to convey the best of our civilization forward to our progeny. Nowadays we have a new one.<br />
<br />
There's a story that the Iroquois tribal culture would judge its actions on the basis of its effects as far as on the seventh generation. I don't know how true the story is, but it is instructive even if apocryphal. The responsibility to the distant future is not about our own advantage, but about the sustenance of the world for our progeny.<br />
<br />
Our current immense power over the environment has placed us in a position where our actions have impacts on not just the seventh generation, but the seventieth.<br />
<br />
Yet our behavior is, as anyone paying attention to the climate problem will attest, astonishingly shortsighted. Far from constraining ourselves to be considerate of the seventieth generation, we seem to have little concern for the world of our own grandchildren. How is this possible?<br />
<br />
I propose that part of the problem is that the eternal has been systematically removed from public discourse. "Religion", we say, "is a private matter". Our collective actions are necessarily "secular'. Only secular activities are informed by objectivity. Ethical responsibilities are too divisive to discuss, and must be ignored. We can leave all the actual discussions to technocratic discourse among professionals in decision-making.<br />
<br />
Those decision-makers are systematically "secular" in both senses. They ignore ethics, and they concentrate only on the foreseeable. They base their advice on a framework of perpetual economic growth, under which conditions a dollar today is worth two in the future. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" because the bird in the hand will almost surely produce more birds in the future.<br />
<br />
In this secular way of thinking, we owe little to the distant future. The more distant in time our impacts, the less we need care about them. Our ancient obligation to carry the torch of civilization is invisible to this way of thinking. Our new obligation to leave the world viable at all for our distant descendants is considered actually beneath mention, a sort of contemptible hysteria.<br />
<br />
Whether the reassuring calculations of econmists about the next few decades are realistic or not absorbs all of our discourse. Somehow, we find ourselves arguing about the global temperature perturbation in 2100, not the (probably much higher) global temperature perturbation when the climate equilibrates to the anthropogenic carbon pulse.<br />
<br />
This systematically understates our generation's vast ethical transgression.<br />
<br />
We are behaving insanely. Insanity is, above all, a failure of love. And we cannot muster the imagination to act from love for our descendants, or for what remains of the world in which they will live.<br />
<br />
It's not as if ethical constraints on economic activity themselves are unimaginable. We no longer tolerate slavery or murder, at least not at the scale they occurred in the past. Money is no object. There is no amount of compensation that (we suppose and hope) absolves a person of murder. We just don't do that.<br />
<b><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.27px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Drowning the coastlines, burning the forests, souring the ocean, these are not just matters for secular consideration subject to discounting.</span></b><br />
<br />
Yet we continue to do just those things. In our daily mundane acts, we impoverish and desecrate the future of our planet. At the present scale, what we are doing is unambiguously ethically wrong.<br />
<br />
Economics should have nothing to say about it other than to acknowledge the constraint and proceed from there.<br />
<br />
Economics can't be expected recognize this on its own. It lacks an ethical vocabulary, and shouldn't be expected to have one. The constraints have to be imposed from outside economics. We simply have to find the gumption to tell economics that we are its masters, not its vassals.<br />
<br />
It's especially sad and discouraging to see so many religions in denial, foolishly siding with the economic reasoning, since the disaster is partly but directly traceable to the secular overriding the eternal in our reasoning.<br />
<br />
The sooner we can wean ourselves from what was once inadvertent destruction, but is now plainly and explicitly immoral and unjustifiable injury to the ages, the less awful we are. We prefer to hide from this culpability, understandably enough, but hiding behind economics' skirt doesn't exonerate us.<br />
<br />
UPDATES: responses by <a href="https://thelukewarmersway.wordpress.com/2017/10/07/building-for-the-past-remembering-the-future/">Tom</a> F, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2017/10/07/morality-and-economics/">William</a> C, with a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2017/10/08/why-it-is-easier-to-agree-on-economics-than-morality/">postscript</a>, and <a href="https://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/economics-and-values/">And</a> T.T.P. <br />
<br />
Links to other direct responses or relevant articles online or in print will be appreciated.<br />
<br />
FOLLOW-UP <a href="https://initforthegold.blogspot.ca/2017/10/quandaries-about-ethics.html">here</a><br />
<br />
<br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com75tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-43771361279780246982017-09-08T12:00:00.000-07:002017-09-08T17:44:53.424-07:00Neptune's Revenge<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiOAENEI_CTGe7cwaOYZeu5S4S-Xg6OBd9-8dRsciHOUB1bsCC4MGvIP1Q0jWl77GA0r6QVONXz-iskNPNOfj3HVpuT22cg6UPf07N0HOZnoXnbEuRQyIgVZkq4FDgGAoC2l02ON_rZUYN3/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-09-08+at+2.47.27+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="512" data-original-width="888" height="368" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiOAENEI_CTGe7cwaOYZeu5S4S-Xg6OBd9-8dRsciHOUB1bsCC4MGvIP1Q0jWl77GA0r6QVONXz-iskNPNOfj3HVpuT22cg6UPf07N0HOZnoXnbEuRQyIgVZkq4FDgGAoC2l02ON_rZUYN3/s640/Screen+Shot+2017-09-08+at+2.47.27+PM.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Graphic is excerpted from <a href="https://www.axios.com/a-history-of-atlantic-hurricanes-2482247577.html">an excellent visualization at Axios.com</a>, shows all Atlantic hurricane intensities from 2003-2015. Category five storms are highlighted and named. It illustrates the peculiar feast/famine pattern of hurricanes that makes statistical inference difficult.</span></span></blockquote>
<br />
After a worst case storm hits Houston another seems to be aiming for Miami. A worst case storm for Miami could be very bad indeed. I've seen a trillion dollars in possible damages bandied around - that would set the whole country back. (*) It almost seems as if a malign force is aiming hurricanes so as to do the most possible damage. It's weird and maybe karmic, as if Neptune were hurling his trident against his newly discovered enemies. It's the stuff of nightmares.<br />
<br />
<br />
But is it really the "climate change wake-up call" that some people are claiming?<br />
<br />
I think a lot of people have been far too quick and adamant about the climate change connection to Harvey. The main impact feature of Harvey was its slowness to advance, and its remaining parked near enough to shore to keep drawing on Gulf moisture. While impressive, Harvey was not a record-setting storm before it landed, and the factors that made it memorable don't seem all that directly related to climate.<br />
<br />
Of course, Harvey is an <i>instance</i> of the changed climate; there's no disputing it was *affected* by the changed climate. <i>Everything is, nice days as well as bad ones.</i> <br />
<br />
It's natural to ask whether a given extreme event was more representative of the changed climate than a comparable event would be in an unchanged climate. But that doesn't mean that science can provide a good answer.<br />
<br />
Harvey, basically, was a Category 3 storm at landfall, Category 4 at peak, and it met an atmosphere where there were no strong steering winds just after it landed. I don't see any reason this is impossible under an unchanged climate. Is it more likely under the changed climate? Maybe. Perhaps it's slightly more likely than not. But I don't think there is an especially strong case that it is definitely so.<br />
<br />
Beyond that, I object to the formulation "Hurricane Harvey was not caused by climate change but was made worse by it". So what do some scientists mean when they say that <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/28/climate-change-hurricane-harvey-more-deadly">so unequivocally</a>? <br />
<br />
The context is a rather uncertain expectation that tropical storms will remain about as common as in the undisturbed climate or perhaps slightly more rare, but that the more vigourous among them will become stronger than in the past. There is weak observational evidence for these claims, but the theory and modeling is clear about a raised "speed limit".<br />
<br />
When the public asks about attribution of specific events, the old habit of the scientific community of saying "you cannot attribute individual events to a changed climate" has been replaced by a weird sort of fractional attribution. "Rainfall in strong events is expected to go up X per cent, and this is a strong event, so X per cent of the rainfall is attributable to climate change."<br />
<br />
I don't think this makes any sense, and it leads people to conclude things like "To be clear, Hurricane Harvey would have formed over the western Gulf of
Mexico and wreaked havoc on Texas, regardless of a warming climate" which doesn't actually make any sense. This was <a href="http://www.creationcare.org/harvey_a_storm_like_no_other">written by Paul Douglas</a>, a meteorologist, and I'm afraid it indicates an alarming lack of understanding of fluid dynamics. <br />
<br />
If the proverbial butterfly can change the weather, (small perturbations lead to vastly different weather states) a trillion tons of CO2 certainly will. You just can't compare scenarios like that.<br />
<br />
No, causality is conceptually an all-or-nothing thing. We don't want to say "Harvey was caused 99% by nature and 1% by humans" or even worse "Harvey was caused 101% by nature and -1% by humans". Nobody will understand this, and I think that is not because they don't understand the subtleties of scientific statistics, but because it makes no sense.<br />
<br />
Does it really make more sense to say "Harvey was not caused by anything in particular but climate change made it rain 5% harder?" I am finding this just as hard to make sense of. Five per cent harder than what? Than that other Harvey that couldn't have formed in that other climate? <br />
<br />
To be fair, it does make some sense to talk about storm surge riding on top of sea level rise. I think it's easy to see how a 12 foot surge on top of a foot of recent sea level rise is a lot like (though not exactly like) a 13 foot surge in a more stable climate. So sea level rise makes storm surge worse in a measurable way. I get that. It's worse than if sea level hadn't risen rapidly. And this matters to Rockport and Corpus Christi. But it doesn't matter to Houston, which was the main story.<br />
<br />
The thermodynamic state of the atmosphere and ocean are all an intrinsic part of "this" storm. If there were a storm with 5% less rain, it would be a different storm in the first place. So I just don't get "made Harvey worse". If Harvey were less bad, it wouldn't be Harvey. These events are unique and distinctive. That's why we give them names. <br />
<br />
It reminds me of the German aphorism my parents were fond of, "If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bus." <br />
<br />
"If Harvey weren't Harvey, it would be 5% weaker" just doesn't add up to a sensible claim to me.<br />
<br />
==<br />
<br />
What we really ought to be doing is seeing where the statistics of tropical storms are heading. If Harvey is part of a trend, to increasing storms, or increasing stalling, or whatever, we could say that. At least that's a well-formed claim.<br />
<br />
But can we even say that?<br />
<br />
The evidence<a href="https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/"> is rather equivocal</a>. NOAA says:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
It is premature to conclude that human activities–and particularly
greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming–have already had a
detectable impact on Atlantic hurricane or global tropical cyclone
activity. That said, human activities may have already caused changes
that are not yet detectable due to the small magnitude of the changes or
observational limitations, or are not yet confidently modeled </blockquote>
Yes, they also say:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are better than even odds that anthropogenic warming over the next
century will lead to an increase in the occurrence of very intense
tropical cyclone in some basins–an increase that would be substantially
larger in percentage terms than the 2-11% increase in the average storm
intensity. This increase in intense storm occurrence is projected
despite a likely decrease (or little change) in the global numbers of
all tropical cyclones. </blockquote>
But that's a long way from "global warming definitely made Harvey worse".<br />
<br />
See for yourself. There's an excellent chart that shows what the Atlantic has been doing hurricane-wise, <a href="https://www.axios.com/a-history-of-atlantic-hurricanes-2482247577.html">here</a> (excerpted and linked at the top of this article as well). Do you see an unambiguous trend? Or do you see a remarkably noisy and peculiar pattern about which it is hard to generalize?<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
So why all this talk of hurricanes? It's obvious. It's a news hook. <br />
<br />
Climate change is very serious. Hurricanes are very serious. They're not unrelated, of course, but the relationship is complicated and as yet unclear. Claiming that "climate change made Harvey worse" is not a good look for climate science. It doesn't make semantic sense, and even if translated into terms that do, it's not a slam dunk that it's true.<br />
<br />
Climate change is a very serious problem even if tropical storms go away altogether. <br />
<br />
The linkage has already caused damage to the reputation of climate activism, as it was much touted in 2005, after which Atlantic hurricanes promptly subsided. People remember this. Going for a remake is not a good idea when the original movie wasn't any good.<br />
<br />
I've been criticized for "not being a team player" on this matter. That's too bad. I really hate going against my friends and allies, and it has costs for me. But as far as I'm concerned, the way the Harvey and climate story has been told is not something I am buying into. <br />
<br />
Our job as communicators of science is to tell people the scary truth, not just to scare people.<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />
(*) (Fortunately for my peace of mind though a bit unfortunately for
my catchy opening paragraph, as I finish writing this Irma is trending a bit west, which
would be quite a bit less disastrous overall, though that's little
compensation for the Southwest coast of Florida and the Keys, or Cuba.)<br />
<br />
===<br /><br />UPDATE: <a href="http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/now-is-exactly-the-time-we-should-be-talking-about-climate-change">Phil Plait does a good job</a> taking up the contrary position. But again I don't think it applies to Harvey very well.<br /><br />===<br /><br />UPDATE 2: Scott Denning <a href="https://twitter.com/airscottdenning/status/906290612982358018">makes a point on Twitter </a>that I had also made earlier this week: that the language "climate change causes weather event X" is very confusing to the public regarding the relationship between weather and climate. Climate doesn't cause weather - climate is made up of weather. This point is a bit pedantic, admittedly. There's a conceptual underpinning here that, true or not, seems to need a coherent phrasing. But the problem that this phrasing is much like saying "the base hit was caused by the batter's improved batting average". In baseball you say "he's hitting well these days" or something. Then you can talk about his improved statistics. But you don't say the statistics caused the hit. The trouble is, I am having trouble formulating a clean way to say what is trying to be said.<br /><br />For instance, I'm fine with making a connection between anthropogenic climate disruption and the forest fires now raging in the northwest US and western Canada. But I'm struggling with how to make the case clearly without mangling the language.<br />
<br />
===<br />
<br />BACKPEDAL: Really, I think the case for a climate disruption footprint on Irma is rather stronger than that for Harvey.<br />
<br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com32tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-19300686194536093252017-09-08T06:57:00.003-07:002017-10-09T13:02:29.179-07:00What we know.Somebody on a Facebook thread said something silly about climate change. Somebody else said "I know a climate scientist, let's see what he says." That scientist was me. <br />
<br />
I responded at perhaps greater length than the occasion deserved, so I have decided to preserve it here. Here's my first pass at "what we know".<br />
<br />
<hr />
<br />
Here's what I am absolutely (not 97% or 99%) sure of:
<br />
<br />
We understand how the atmosphere works pretty darn well. See how the hurricanes are going almost exactly where the models predicted? That's an amazing achievement, and there's a lot of science behind it.
<br />
<br />
To understand the weather at the surface of a solid planet, one of the keys is the composition of the atmosphere, particularly of gases and suspended particles that absorb radiation. That radiation can be either from the sun (mostly visible and ultraviolet) or thermal radiation from the surface (infrared). Over the long term, the energy coming in matches the energy going out. So the composition of the atmosphere sets the surface conditions. If it's harder for the infrared to get out, the planet is warmer than otherwise. This is not just about the Earth, it's universal.
<br />
<br />
We call gases that absorb infrared "greenhouse gases", and in understanding the complicated climate history of the Earth, carbon dioxide is one of the two most important of these, the other being water vapor.
<br />
<br />
Carbon flows in closed cycles between the soil, the plants, the atmosphere and the ocean. Natural changes in CO2 concentration, while very important, are relatively slow. Humans recently have been digging up carbon at a prodigious rate, and burning it to create CO2, altering the amount of carbon in the system. This has been accelerating with economic activity, and has recently become large enough that it matters to the climate. About half the extra CO2 stays in the atmosphere, warming and changing the climate at rates that are much faster than natural systems evolved for nor than human systems are prepared for. Despite increasingly loud and consistent (yes, consistent) warnings from scientists going back as far as the 1950s, the problem continues to accelerate.
<br />
<br />
Extra carbon in the system does not go away for a very long time (unless we undertake very expensive measures to slowly draw it down artificially). This means that with each passing day the burden we leave to our descendants gets worse.
<br />
<br />
The main sources of damage are expected to include ecological stress, sea level rise, and direct heat stress. Patterns of drought and flood are likely to change, and unexpected events will take specific places by surprise.
<br />
<br />
Also, the extra carbon alters ocean chemistry (ocean acidification) which directly impacts shellfish and plankton and upsets the ocean food chain. This is just beginning to be noticeable and is going to get much worse.
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<br />
People say "97% of scientists" agree with this, but in my experience it is an underestimate. I don't personally know of any competent scientist who disagrees with the above. The "3%" seem to be outsiders who don't know their stuff.
<br />
<br />
Consider <a href="http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/On-global-warming-the-science-is-solid-1623018.php">this editorial in the Houston Chronicle</a>, which had a similar purpose to this posting. It asserts <span style="font-family: inherit;">"<span style="background-color: white;">to the best of our knowledge, there are no climate scientists in Texas who disagree with the mainstream view of climate science." As far as I know, nobody stepped up to contest that claim. Texas is a big state not known for reticence. The naysayer contingent in Texas is zero per cent.</span></span><br />
<br />
<br />
There's a great deal more that we know, but that's basically the core of what we are sure of about climate change. There's a lot we suspect but aren't sure of, mostly about the consequences of all this and what to do about it. There's much debate about all that, but most people who think about it seriously are very concerned to say the least.
<br />
<br />
UPDATE: Kerry Emanuel also tried to answer this question, for an audience of engineers, in somewhat greater detail. Video is here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7so8GRCWA1k">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7so8GRCWA1k</a><br />
<br />
<br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-29280383886332240552017-09-03T18:23:00.002-07:002017-09-03T18:23:35.819-07:00NoiseIt's apparent that it's no longer feasible for me to have an unmoderated blog.<br />
<br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-62817639952862956682017-08-14T18:19:00.000-07:002017-09-03T18:30:37.003-07:00Shakespeare's works not Written by Shakespeare but by Somebody Else with the Same Name<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhRAulsPznWsLc3AuXLwAqhb8A6p-SvmYxLxFD3ml3Mv4sHgIVvcPxRG-iYjMEyN3XPnvX7oHASlUbutDhRQ2HuFBfms5kwCyUjjpqO-qRPm-XqUWYL71EyxoKM4cSPFl0qlI8PObO_5E6F/s1600/shakesbacon.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="250" data-original-width="500" height="160" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhRAulsPznWsLc3AuXLwAqhb8A6p-SvmYxLxFD3ml3Mv4sHgIVvcPxRG-iYjMEyN3XPnvX7oHASlUbutDhRQ2HuFBfms5kwCyUjjpqO-qRPm-XqUWYL71EyxoKM4cSPFl0qlI8PObO_5E6F/s320/shakesbacon.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>or: Does it matter if you are who you say you are?</b>
</span><br />
<br />
<b>1) <i>wherein our hero expresses a clever observation</i></b><br />
<br />
Today's Twitter rabbit-hole begins with a <a href="https://twitter.com/mtobis/status/897122079295893506">clever observation</a> on my part.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2017/08/11/more-climate-change-stories-fewer-graphs-and-maps/#69069180798e">Marshall Shepherd writes on Forbes</a>, some not very unusual "don't be such a scientist" stuff about trying to tart up the climate story to reach a broad audience. <br />
<br />
Which as my regular readers know, in my opinion is grossly insufficient. We have to explain, patiently, and forthrightly, at every level of sophistication we can muster, targeted to every audience that expresses an interest. That this is essentially impossible is met by the competing factor that it's absolutely necessary. The human interest angle is something, but it is not everything.<br />
<br />
Shepherd writes:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: white; font-variant-ligatures: common-ligatures;">As the report rolled out, I saw </span><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/08/10/its-unambiguous-and-definitive-five-charts-prove-the-planet-is-steadily-heating-up/?utm_term=.c201aa34592d" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; background-color: white; box-sizing: border-box; color: #003891; font-variant-ligatures: common-ligatures; text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank">excellent articles</a><span style="background-color: white; font-variant-ligatures: common-ligatures;"> and information sharing with charts or graphics showing warming areas or trend lines of temperature, sea level and so forth. However, a part of me wonders if such maps have become the "car alarms" of climate communication. I argue that we need more climate stories, less graphs and maps.</span></span></blockquote>
So I tweeted in reply:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: white; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.27px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Our failure to communicate with charts & graphs made these photos & stories possible. Can't photograph a prediction!</span></blockquote>
That is, if we had succeeded in getting our charts and graphs across to people, we would have kept climate change small enough that there really wouldn't be photographs and stories of climate change to turn into engaging human interest stories. We'd be so much better off if we never had to count on the stories and images that engage a disengaged public.<br />
<br />
Now, it turns out that there are still people who don't believe anything is happening. This strikes me as immensely odd, since everything is happening more or less on schedule. (The global warming metric itself is a bit slow, but many impacts are nevertheless going up faster than we probably expected. And people everywhere who are connected to their surroundings are noticing.) (Also there's that stratospheric cooling as predicted in Charney et al 1979, which cannot be explained by any other warming mechanism. I find this dispositive but I guess your mileage may vary.)<br />
<br />
<b>2) <i>wherein our hero gets trolled</i></b><br />
<br />
Now in response to my cleverness, one @balinteractive replied:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Climate communicators realise that annotating their dark fairy tales w/ charts & graphs hasn't worked: will now just stick to scare stories.</span></blockquote>
Of course this ticked me off no end, partly because I am utterly opposed to "sticking to scare stories" and in response I dug up an old favourite Gahan Wilson cartoon:<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsb_dv3ZVDBz8phyphenhyphenYogSLggAMTRGrA8jj0aD0QnI2Y_L-sjPPjRJJpG_Lcj6up82XuG34W1Tr4QAUCPgdDtyYOikNZabIkHlfHi88Y0Nap9tMTE2qhqUjpH0qKuBhZkP-4i6C3EvXalrzn/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+2.10.36+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="757" data-original-width="794" height="381" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsb_dv3ZVDBz8phyphenhyphenYogSLggAMTRGrA8jj0aD0QnI2Y_L-sjPPjRJJpG_Lcj6up82XuG34W1Tr4QAUCPgdDtyYOikNZabIkHlfHi88Y0Nap9tMTE2qhqUjpH0qKuBhZkP-4i6C3EvXalrzn/s400/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+2.10.36+PM.png" width="400" /></a></div>
<br />
See, my point was <i>y'all should have paid attention to the charts and graphs in the first place, hear?</i><br />
<br />
And what did I get back?<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<span style="background-color: white; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.27px; white-space: pre-wrap;">That's good. Much better than a chart or graph as a text accompaniment.</span></blockquote>
<b>3) <i>wherein our hero wonders if all is as it seems</i></b><br />
<br />
OK, this belligerent obtuseness has me mad. Whom am I talking to? @balinteratcive describes itself as<br />
<br />
<div class="ProfileHeaderCard-bio u-dir" dir="ltr" style="color: #14171a; direction: ltr !important; line-height: 20px; margin-bottom: 12px; unicode-bidi: embed; word-wrap: break-word;">
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="font-size: 14px;">
Man-made global warming sceptic. <a class="twitter-hashtag pretty-link js-nav" data-query-source="hashtag_click" dir="ltr" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brexiter?src=hash" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; color: #981ceb; text-decoration-line: none;">#Brexiter</a> Detest animal cruelty. Despise politicians. Absolutely adore my rescue German Shepherds..</blockquote>
This brief bio is accompanied by a charming picture of a young woman, and a banner picture of two dogs on a beach. Do I believe this is a true biography? Well, if this is a troll account, it would be useful to attach it to such attributes as being an attractive young woman who loves animals and is politically neutral. Looking at the linked blog shows exclusively climate skeptic articles, mostly with elaborate charts and graphs like <a href="https://climatecontrarian.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/is-decembers-rainfall-in-the-nw-unprecedented/">this one</a>. It's mostly in the usual vein of finding some inconclusive data and thereby somehow concluding there's nothing to conclude. There's quite a lot of it, and I wonder why someone whom I'd not encountered in the blog wars at all would go to all that trouble.<br />
<br />
Now, you could ask whether it matters whether the biography is contrived. It's the old joke. <br />
<i><br />Did you know that what we know of as Shakespeare's works weren't written by Shakespeare? In fact they were written by somebody else with the same name. </i><br />
<i><br /></i>As with Shakespeare, it's clear that <i>somebody</i> wrote this stuff, and it stands or falls on its own merits.<br />
<br />
Who cares whether it is a young female dog fancier or somebody else, a paid troll or a fanatic, putting out extra articles in the usual vein?<br />
<br />
On the other hand, it is an interesting profile. If it's a real person, you have to wonder how she developed this level of obsession to write, apparently exclusively, in the blog-science anti-climate vein, as if there were a shortage of that stuff.<br />
<br />
If it's not a real person, that calls into question the legitimacy of the motivation for this writing. Who would misrepresent themselves for these purposes? Obviously, somebody out to discredit science. There are plenty of motivated parties out there!<br />
<br />
So (perhaps foolishly( I expressed my doubts<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> I have trouble believing you're real. Animal activist & climate naysayer, or troll? You know climate disruption already damages ecosystems?</span></blockquote>
We had a version of The Usual Argument which I thought the end of it:<br />
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs4D7hbN7saEQC_oflGNVYFN8v8JpJaiOeSNfCLsECfjiIwlMCnJjptGjDRSd3DBCEfOcQc86FxU6M7R3w4cJNKkh-9XruFaFNL4sj5oACH8j7s_UnJayvROvTh339xvQvW0bYiROWF5Bi/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+8.41.01+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="553" data-original-width="612" height="577" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs4D7hbN7saEQC_oflGNVYFN8v8JpJaiOeSNfCLsECfjiIwlMCnJjptGjDRSd3DBCEfOcQc86FxU6M7R3w4cJNKkh-9XruFaFNL4sj5oACH8j7s_UnJayvROvTh339xvQvW0bYiROWF5Bi/s640/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+8.41.01+PM.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
but then...<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoN1rT4_SixZU7WWAsbATBDY3KiJG3upgoRjPyoEXBBpah6ftNIXnVJLEbAYN1w402e-rRixQTTz8b-LlasXBdXblzPCqwewecCYeCzk2asfL8iTy1wyUHpEYFngW4DDCV30el1tJlwaeO/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+8.44.42+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="774" data-original-width="595" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoN1rT4_SixZU7WWAsbATBDY3KiJG3upgoRjPyoEXBBpah6ftNIXnVJLEbAYN1w402e-rRixQTTz8b-LlasXBdXblzPCqwewecCYeCzk2asfL8iTy1wyUHpEYFngW4DDCV30el1tJlwaeO/s640/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+8.44.42+PM.png" width="490" /></a></div>
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<br /></div>
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</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<b><br /></b></div>
<b><br /></b>
<b>4) <i>wherein our hero suffers untoward consequences for his suspicions:</i></b><br />
<i><br /></i>
There followed numerous attacks on my character from various other people, and that of "climate scientists" in general, as if suspecting people of being trolls is a standard technique and my own treading into this territory. e.g.<br />
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgOe2Z2_bdh4KjJGSZ-a-WMPGxdzUxZmgz63cmApafj7KPBLbmHFu9KMSf83Sgy-R6zIOpLAnkptnS7EWuHc_j5ZKYBnIbx8O4pIOU5gvrh0r2kOYDOZMvYw5Cnb0S4letXj3if4qWdLMDH/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+9.14.52+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="162" data-original-width="608" height="170" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgOe2Z2_bdh4KjJGSZ-a-WMPGxdzUxZmgz63cmApafj7KPBLbmHFu9KMSf83Sgy-R6zIOpLAnkptnS7EWuHc_j5ZKYBnIbx8O4pIOU5gvrh0r2kOYDOZMvYw5Cnb0S4letXj3if4qWdLMDH/s640/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+9.14.52+PM.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
<br />
Jim Bouldin, as is his wont, was singularly unhelpful (these are in reverse order for technical reasons I'm too lazy to work around), to my eye expressing exactly the arrogance he accuses others of:<br />
<br />
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiXnBnbksgtV6QgRwU4A7ibOQ6xygfYQB_j5m5Vb-fDginmLnHhM8t5q-hnEmiMa8T1G25LxVy1CzrWtNSuDKPwMQZQtEflSHuAb_BB4d0qhXkSDVIjTezawYsLfRS6OEXiRKheyD9G8WUV/s1600/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+9.09.13+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="546" data-original-width="673" height="518" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiXnBnbksgtV6QgRwU4A7ibOQ6xygfYQB_j5m5Vb-fDginmLnHhM8t5q-hnEmiMa8T1G25LxVy1CzrWtNSuDKPwMQZQtEflSHuAb_BB4d0qhXkSDVIjTezawYsLfRS6OEXiRKheyD9G8WUV/s640/Screen+Shot+2017-08-14+at+9.09.13+PM.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
and a bit more from a few of the Usual Suspects.<br />
<br />
<b>5) <i>wherein our hero searches for the meaning of this escapade</i></b><br />
<br />
So, is this person really a young dog-loving Brexiter from <strike>Lancs.</strike> Lincs.? Does it matter? Was it stupid of me to express my doubts?<br />
<br />
As for biographical information, she provided<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">I don't have any mad blog science skills. I got a first degree in Phys/Astronomy at UCL and did a masters in Env Acoustics at Southbank. </span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">That explains my passion for science I believe. </span></blockquote>
Which really didn't convince me of much. "Environmental Acoustics" (which is a branch of architecture that tries to keep noise down in buildings) seems like something somebody doing a quick Google for obscure postgraduate environmental majors for physicists might come up with. We don't have any idea what she does when she isn't writing blog science or romping on the beach with her dogs. And "that explains my passion for science" in no way follows, nor does a "passion for science" really justify the usual tiresome nitpicking about specific trends, preferably noisy and local ones.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, in defense of her reality, she does express <a href="https://climatecontrarian.wordpress.com/2014/09/26/climate-musings-on-a-messy-battlefield/">what appears a genuine revulsion</a> for a local windfarm, one which may indeed be insensitively and crudely sited, for all I know. And on review, her <a href="https://twitter.com/Balinteractive">Twitter feed</a> does seem a bit more fleshed out than that of the typical paid troll.<br />
<br />
<b><i>6) wherein a paradoxical solution to the quandary is proposed</i></b><br />
<br />
<b>Is it any of my business? If she is real, of course it isn't. If she isn't real, of course it is!</b><br />
<br />
Quite a weird quandary.<br />
<br />
Anyway, Ms Jaime Jessop, if you are really a dogloving acoustician with an astronomy degree hanging out with your dogs in <strike>Lancashire</strike> Lincolnshire who likes to spend many hours snarking at climate scientists because you abhor wind turbines, I do apologise for all this. But if you aren't, I don't.<br />
<br />
It's not your obligation to convince me, of course. But it's not my obligation to be convinced by your brief protestations either. As for who has been rude and condescending to whom here, and in what order, I guess opinions vary.<br />
<br />
Anyway, Jaime Jessop, I remain open to a Skype conversation beginning with a sincere apology from me, if you are a real person. On the record or off, as you choose.<br />
<br />
UPDATE: While Facebook and Google were no help, to my surprise <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-revill-jessop-941214139/">Ms Jessop turned up on LinkedIn</a>, so she gets a sort-of-apology. <br />
<br />
At
least I think it is her; I am poor at facial recognition but there is
the striking feature of a broad face and a pointy chin on both
images, and the lady on the LinkedIn page lives, or at least works,
not in Lincolnshire but in neighbouring Nottinghamshire, which is close
enough I suppose. And the eccentric spelling of the Christian name
matches as well.<br />
<br />
However, my sense that the biography she
presents is incoherent holds up. Ms Jessop apparently has a single
degree in graphic arts and works in a personnel office at Tesco, which I
believe is a supermarket chain. There is nothing wrong with that of
course, but her claim of an advanced degree in science now looks more
than ever to be a pretense.<br />
<br />
While the person running the climate
naysayer stuff could actually not be this woman is conceivable, I
suppose the benefit of the doubt is in order on that score.<br />
<br />
So, Ms. Jessop, my
intuition that your story doesn't hold water is confirmed. Why you're so
engaged on the climate matter and why you felt compelled to claim
credentials you don't have (or to hide them on your linked-in page) are
matters which remain mysterious from my persepctive. <br />
<br />
But my
intuition that you don't exist is wrong, and despite your indifference
to straightening that matter out, I withdraw my suspicions on that score
and apologise for any inconvenience.<br />
<br />
SECOND UPDATE:<br />
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Our JJ denies being the Tesco lady, is sticking with the improbable (math/physics -> architectural acoustics -> climate troll bio) without any corroboration. Consequently my half-hearted half-apology must be withdrawn. Doubly sorry.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">https://twitter.com/Balinteractive/status/902836602153598976</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">which could be read as sarcasm, but also a "like" for</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #202020; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">https://twitter.com/BarryJWoods/status/902921058315116545</span><br />Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-45609605645822508512017-07-28T20:20:00.000-07:002017-07-28T22:14:54.616-07:00Twitter rant<br />
<b>Eli: Mostly you don't get the time to expound bcs people get off the elevator</b><br />
<br />
Me: This gets me off on quite a tangent... Why don't people pay attention to the future of their own world? Busy, stressed, scared, angry, mean<br />
<br />
One reason for the buckling of democracy is the stealing of people's time and emotional energy in high stakes marketplace hypercompetition.<br />
<br />
Democracy can be preserved or restored only if & when daily life is secure. A key reason to support Universal Basic Income or similar ideas.<br />
<br />
A calm and confident people can learn, absorb ideas, weigh strategies. A hassled population buffeted by competing shallow ideas cannot.<br />
<br />
<b>Kevin Leahy: Not to mention the dumbing down of news via infotainment +robust for profit propaganda/outrage machine.</b><br />
<br />
These go together. A society with the time to think wouldn't tolerate this bullshit. I'm old enough to remember when we didn't.<br />
<br />
<b>Scott Wahlstrom: If this is true, how does democracy emerge out of discontent and oppression? I'm not a master of history, so the premise may be flawed...</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
For one thing, in US, UK, and Canada at least, democracy emerged gradually from comfortable oligarchy. In France many false starts.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">But my point is more how democracies fail than how they emerge. I think it's clear that the end of the Weimar Republic is hugely instructive</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">I'm old enough to remember intelligent, respectful, intellectually challenging debate on television. The idea seems almost unimaginable now!</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">In those days, the standard was one job per household of four to six. Now it's every adult must work. Jobs are more stressful, less reliable</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Given that machines are more capable & there is supposedly much more wealth to go around, it's hard to understand this urgent need for jobs!</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Meanwhile the decisions facing the democracy are at least as complicated, perhaps more so. But there isn't the public attention available.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Most people eschew politics altogether. Those who are engaged are not only polarized but professionalized. Discourse replaced by team sport.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The people who even bother to vote are then faced with a choice between a few heavily advertised but obviously defective brands.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Little resembling public discourse occurs. Little resembling leadership is possible. A formerly remarkable system goes on autopilot.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Democracy depends on engagement from the voting class. We have set things up so most voters cannot afford the time or emotion to engage.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Time is what we need. Time for calm reflection. I think a lot of people can't even imagine what that would be like anymore.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Given that people are disengaged, politics boils down to competing advertising agencies pitching packages of half-truths.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Recently it's been discovered that unmitigated lies have advantages in a marketplace of ideas where buyers don't have time to shop carefully</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">I think we are well on our way to incapacitating ourselves wrt not just climate change but even maintaining what had been a robust peace.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">If we descend into barbarism nobody will be able to care enough for the future to work hard enough to replace fossil fuels.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">So whether we go all the way to genocide or not, the 21st century now looks likely to be even more disastrous and stupid than the 20th.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The 20th century totalitarians made a horror of their own time. We, more powerful, stand to make a horror of many generations to come.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">I'm not eager to abandon democracy as an ideal, but it demands participation & engagement. That won't come from a frantic, stressed society.<br /><br /><span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Everyone on earth should be guaranteed food and shelter. This would be much cheaper than means-tested programs, very much cheaper than war!
</span><span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">But also that kind of security would free up attention that is now bottled up in scheming and striving and jealousy and fear.
</span><span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span><span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">We might still pull a decent future out if we address our idiotic commitment to a policy of maximum employment at minimum wage. A long shot.
</span><span style="background-color: #f5f8fa; color: #14171a; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
But I am starting to think it's the only shot we've got.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8524070301101240472.post-60286279466774276012017-07-26T10:15:00.002-07:002017-07-26T10:15:53.338-07:00A grumbleA random grumble about coupled models found during the cleanup. This may provide some insight into one of the key failure points of my checkered career as a scientist.<br />
<br />
==<br />
<br />
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">
It's the clocking when you couple systems that makes for messes like these. Even if co-designed, the component models necessarily have different time steps.</div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; min-height: 16px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">
Not only is it a kluge to make the ice the main(), as far as I understand nobody has investigated the dynamic implications of various coupling strategies. </div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; min-height: 16px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">
I am very confident that somebody smarter than me can figure out a predictor-corrector (a sort of huge Runge-Kutta step) scheme for the coupler strategy. Whether it is worth the bother is unclear to me. Perhaps the extant coupling is good enough. </div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; min-height: 16px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">
But to be honest, if anybody has done any serious math defending the proposal that ANY of the various ad hoc coupling strategies of climate models (or perhaps of multiphysics models in general) does no significant damage to the coupled system dynamics, I haven't seen it. Maybe it's obvious to some. Or maybe it's hard, but someone has worked through it. Or maybe it's just a crude hack that needs a major rethinking.</div>
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; min-height: 16px;">
<br /></div>
<br />
<div style="background-color: #fff9e0; font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">
I really wanted to approach this experimentally, as my math isn't subtle enough to answer the question to my own satisfaction. But I put too much faith in a piece of DoE middleware, not for the first time, and fell flat on my face.</div>
Michael Tobishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.com0